Patient Gamers

This is how I feel about all "soulslike" games. To me they're all big Mario Maker levels with extra steps, and I don't like Mario Maker either (at least not what people do with the more difficult levels). And this is not about the games being too hard, I actually enjoy that aspect, my favorite games are roguelikes and multiplayer games with very deep mechanics, like Dota 2 and Counter-Strike. I like being challenged and I don't mind losing, as long I get rewarded with something that feels meaningful (like getting better at the game or learning more about the story).

The issue is actually that what people call challenging in these games come from the level designer trolling you, like an enemy that is in a weird spot and is designed to kill you without giving you real chance, then you just memorize it and repeat that loop until you reach the end of the game. This is a pattern with the bosses too, it's not about being smart or experimenting with interesting mechanics, but about knowing the bullshit hitboxes, or the weird timing on the enemy animations. To top it up the story is often very minimalistic and relies on very basic tropes. So what's left for me is a huge time sink without any real reward.

I love the game. Even got all the endings.

I think all the parrying is more satisfying than all the dodge rolls in Dark Souls. It makes cool noises and look more spectacular. Dodge rolls just look weird and doesn’t make sense at all (but it’s still fun to do).

And if you think the game is too easy, there’s a way to make it harder (before NG+). You can ring the Demon Bell found in Senpou Temple, which will trigger some form of ”hard mode”.

Preface: I have played through DS1 multiple times, DS 3 multiple times, Elden Ring multiple times, and Sekiro twice. I love all these games to bits. I tried DeS, and while I found it fascinating, I came upon it too late and did not feel like proceeding as I have been spoiled by later titles.

Sekiro is beloved due to its very tight design. It asks the player to excel at a handful of specific skills rather than presenting a wide array of options and going "well some of this ought to work for you if combined correctly". Is either approach better than the other? Subjective. But it's easy to see why one or the other could appeal more or less to individuals.

That being said, with a narrower band of skills to sharpen comes more constrained encounters. Sekiro is (chiefly) a game about one-on-one combat where nearly every attack can be deflected. "Parry" really is the wrong word for the primary defensive option in Sekiro. Even attacks that are telegraphed with the big red "watch out!" warning actually CAN be deflected (though perhaps you'd be a fool to try). The game is clearly trying to get the player into the groove of trading strikes. You attack until sparks fly, the enemy disengages, or winds up an attack unhindered by your strikes. Then you are met with the defensive challenge: here is one or more attacks with different timings and potential responses. It is now up to the player to answer with whatever they feel is most effective. This may be deflect, block, dodge, jump, mikiri counter, consumable item, or shinobi prosthetic tool. You may find more than one answer fits and therein lies the player's ability to be creative.

I would argue being creative within a more limited set of constraints does not necessarily diminish the quality of satisfaction one could experience. Being able to master - or at minimum become proficient with - a difficult set of skills despite constraints could even be argued to be far more satisfying as there is less opportunity to find some cheese in the massive toolbox that you would otherwise have access to. And it's not like the toolbox you have in Sekiro is as small as some detractors seem to think. However, it is much smaller and focused than other titles... especially Elden Ring.

And this is me only talking about the combat. All the other aspects of the game are very well designed too, but I've said enough. Also, critics tend to focus on the combat anyway.

Souls + elden ring games: dodging just avoids damage. For me, its just dodging the 7 moves untill the boss does the right opening for me to punish. Sekiro: deflecting does posture damage to the boss. You are in control of the fight. (Bloodborne: fingers crossed next week)

Also, your first taste of New Game Plus might also change your mind. I know saying 'wait till new game plus' is a bad argument, but my first playthrough, it took me days to beat genichiro in the castle. New game plus, you know all the moves, and you end up one shotting+no hitting the boss. Its like YOU'RE the boss now just putting down all the bosses that put you down the first time.

I love the game, but did admittedly struggle for one reason: regular enemies are pretty easy, then you'll be hit with a boss that stonewalls you. There's no build up in difficulty. Enemies = trivial. Bosses = ludicrous. Additionally bosses are often a battle of attrition, and I don't have the sanity to last several minutes engaged in the same attack pattern.

"aside from Elden Ring"

Bruh. This is the hot take here. Sekiro is excellent but I can understand why some don't like it. It actually took my two tries, years apart, to get through it but after I did it's one of my favorites.

However, why the frick wouldn't you play Elden Ring? Blasphemy really

I love Dark Souls, but Sekiro was very frustrating.

The main issues I have with it is that (I) you have one playstyle (vs. the dozens weapons in Dark Souls), meaning that if you don’t like it, you are stuck, and (II) after a while, you only fight bosses (finding your way to reach a boss was part of the fun in Dark Souls, and this has been dropped after the first half of the game I would say).

The game is also much more difficult, because the parrying system allows your enemies to heal after a while. You have to be very aggressive and master all the patterns, otherwise they heal.

It took me around 50 hours to complete, among which I was stuck 15-20 hours on the final boss. It’s not a bad game, but if the gameplay does not match with your playstyle, it can almost be impossible to complete.

What’s a bit disturbing, is that I loved Sekiro at first. It was very fun for the first 10 hours I would say. I could totally imagine people love Sekiro for those first hours, and gave up before it becomes « annoying » (since we know most people do not complete their games).

how I feel about all souls games. Sekiro had the aesthetic I liked more and still didn't finish it. I just find them boring

I get why people love Sekiro, though it is a game I have played off and on for years now and just never finished. By the time I get myself resituated I start to lose energy for it again.

The biggest thing for me are the controls. The time and focus on committing everything to muscle memory is the barrier to Sekiro. As the years go on I find I just plain don't have the brainspace for such a specialized game.

It took me a long time to get the sekiro timings down but they are not "all over the place". They are literally timed with when you would get hit and take damage.

Deflect (there is no parry) too soon and you won't take damage but you'll receive posture damage. Deflect on time and you get no damage and no posture damage. Deflect too late and you get damage and posture penalty.

What i liked about sekiro is that it taught me how to be a better DS player. In DS i never bothered to parry, but after being forced to learn the deflect mechanic i went back to DS and was able to do parry more consistently. That aside, the game had fun, challenging combat and the narrative was compelling.

It seems to me that Sekiro is most enjoyed by people who didn't like the rest of the Fromsoft lineup. I'm finding the combat less dull than Bloodborne's (the only other Fromsoft game I've played for more than a few minutes), primarily because I'm taking an active role by parrying and attacking instead of spending the majority of the time standing around waiting for the enemy to give me an opening. I find the parrying very rewarding, in the sense that it tickles that part of my brain that likes the shiny flash and the TING

is it just the fast paced combat and grappling hook that helps it?

That, the simplified leveling system, the lack of a stamina bar, the healing gourd having a ton of uses between rests, and the resurrection mechanic. There's a lot of little things about this game that makes it easier than a typical Fromsoft game, without making it trivial. It's the perfect level of challenging for me personally

Sekiro is one of my all time favorite games and I find it to be quite fun. I think you are struggling because you consider yourself to be a souls borne veteran and approaching the game with that mentality. The primal urge to roll away is the biggest holdup in my opinion. Get in there and parry any attacks you can except the danger ones. Also, get mikiri counter ASAP.

After you have beaten Geni, you will get some sort of hangof the general timings of the game, but true understanding can only be attained after beating sword saint isshin.

Just hang in there, my first playthrough was hard as hell, but now I am at new game 13, sometimes I go through 2 new game cycles in a single day.

Pro tip, grab as much booze as you can and give them to as many people as you can for that juicy lore.

I really like Sekiro. It's one of my favorite games and easily my favorite FromSoft game. If you're almost done with it and you've only struggled with two bosses, you might not be enjoying it because you're too good at it.

I feel like it's almost entirely fair, which I appreciate. I like the setting and the exploration. I like that it's sort of short and contained. And I like how all the bosses have unique challenges to deal with.

And Genichiro is one of the best boss battles of any game I've ever played

I definitely enjoyed the game. It is also one of the only games I ever hunted and got all the achievements for.. that said, there is a darker side to this story. This particular game helped me ruin two different controllers by wearing out the parry button. And also, alongside the game Hades, it truly wrecked my thumbs and hands (arthritis). I can barely game with controllers anymore at all.

I think Sekiro is good, but not fun in sense that it would be relaxin game, it is fun that when i manage down a boss it feels like achievement.

Sekiro is first game for me that is said to be like "Dark Souls game". And only played it thru once.

I do think Sekiro fighting is good, after I played Sekiro next was Ghost of Tsushima, and damn it was hard, could not get parries. I think in Sekiro they are better telegraphed or something. I remember there was some loading screen tip in Sekiro that said something like "to parry press block button when enemy hit would land" and it was good, tip, on Ghost it did not work at all. But take that out of backbone after playing Sekiro. God Of War (2017, and Ragnarock) games, is all other ball again, but among these games I think Sekiro's combat is best. It feels responsive, dare i say, fair.

Sekiro boring, irritating, unimaginative. -best enemy giant black cock. Notable mention butthole monster. Did not finish, would not recommend.

I have not played Sekiro, but I have played an indie knockoff called Kanagi Usagi, so I’m basing my understanding on that.

From how it felt, the health bars are a decoration and the real boss health is poise. I get what they were going for, but it causes a lot of stress for any interruption like healing or long enemy attacks that cause their poise to regenerate, feeling like your effort and time was wasted.

A game I liked better in every respect was Another Crab’s Treasure. You build poise even just by hold-blocking, but your “shield” is a limited resource; one you can choose to invest in with RES. It keeps the idea of encouraging you to keep pressure, by building poise damage on regular attacks, but also punishes you for dodge-rolling as a default for every attack (you’ll never get a “capsize”). And, you still get the reward factor of parries if you release block at the perfect time.

And yeah, ACT is a bit easier; but I’d say its chosen level of difficulty made it a more enjoyable game.