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Academic here - it's 100% genocide. More so, it's the worst kind of genocide, it's sanctioned genocide built upon conflating a people with their government.
built upon conflating a people with their government.
Which makes those people in other parts of the world (myself included) inherently less safe.
In fact, if I could point to one single factor that has made Jews less safe in this world post-WWII, it would be Israel.
Yup, most people of the Jewish faith are not the state of Israel. Much as most people of the Islamic faith are not terrorists. People mostly just want to lead comfortable lives.
It's a great case of A->B being misunderstood as A<->B to justify incredible shittiness.
I do sometimes wonder if I should write a paper full of examples suggesting that this really simple misunderstanding of logic is what drives the enshittification of humanity ^_^
Last I checked, the number of Jews in New York state alone and the number of Jews in Israel was pretty close to equal.
I think that's the conflation - Jews in Israel and Jews in New York state fall into the set Jews. However the right wing supporters of Netenyahu's government are but a subset of the former.
A better comparison would be that the number of Jews in New York state was once close to the number of peaceful Palestinians and peaceful Israelis; meanwhile, the number of hardline genocidal Israelis was roughly equal to the number of Hamas terrorists. Those sets seem a better match, as they share more core categorical features.
Israel is the best fucking recruitment tool antisemitism has.
Fuck Zionism, Fuck Empires
I am genuinely curious, what kind of academic are you?
I am asking because I didn't understand why your credentials would benefit your comment and why did you feel the need to mention it before stating your opinion on a anonymous community.
You might be joking when you are saying that you are academic, but I am asking in case you where serious.
Probably playing off of this part of the article:
"[...] I discarded the argument that scholars haven’t reached a conclusion on whether the Gaza genocide is really taking place”, Marshall wrote in his decision.
Pretty much - most of us (scholars being a synonym for academics, a set I do belong to [lectureship in mathematics and statistics]) agree that bombing the homes of people into rubble and striking the camps they flee to is an intentional attempt to erase a cultural group.
Your field of study is not directly relevant here (unless you work to figure out the death toll, maybe). However scholars that do study genocide do now seem to agree that the killing of Palestinians by Israel is a genocide.
Indeed.
@[email protected] - moreso tactfully pointing out we must be aware of credential inflation and to avoid reliance on appeals to authority?
The naïve optimist in me wants the @[email protected] of the world to keep on revealing their backgrounds as it adds to discussions for me. Disappointing that I should be more skeptical.
Well there is the genocide where many other nations turn a blind eye to ("oops sorry we did not see what was happening there") and then there is the genocide where multiple other nations actively support it while trying to look like they are slapping wrists ("bad Israel! bad Israel!" passes weapons under the table)
British Wikipedian, Stuart Marshall, made the final ruling in September, decisively supporting the article’s inclusion. “Based on the strength of the arguments … and it’s not close … I discarded the argument that scholars haven’t reached a conclusion on whether the Gaza genocide is really taking place”, Marshall wrote in his decision. “The matter remains contested, but there’s a metric truckload of scholarly sources linked in this discussion that show a clear predominance of academics who say that it is.”
"Stu, you can't say metric fuckton"
It is what it is.
"I'm not publishing that."
Fine! A metric truckton.
I didn't actually realize that he didn't say "metric fuckton" until I saw your comment and went back to reread it.
Because everyone knows if you say it’s not genocide, it’s not genocide. 🇨🇳🇮🇱🇷🇺🇺🇸
If it doesn't come from the Armenian region of Türkiye it's not a genocide, it's sparkling ethnic cleansing.
Damn it, you came up with a better 'sparkling' joke than I was thinking of.
I bow to the master.
I've been relistening to the Hardcore History episodes about World War 1, and Dan Carlin makes an interesting observation: Türkiye gets so pissy when you call what the Young Turks did the "Armenian genocide" but genocides are so common throughout history that it would be notable if a country didn't commit one. Israel is also mad about calling what they're doing in Gaza as a genocide, insisting that the 40,000 Gazans who have been killed were obviously Hamas, even 70% of which were women and children.
"Genocide" and "Nazi" are now odd words in English- they're concepts that certain deplorable people have no qualms with idealizing and adhering to, as long as you don't call them that.
I would also love to hear yours. That line of sparkling comparison is definitely something I’m going to add to my vocabulary
Unfortunately, two hours later, I've totally forgotten it. Sorry.
Title gore. What is this headline trying to communicate?
"Wikipedia concludes that Israel is committing genocide, thus ending an editorial debate"
Thank you, I read it over and over and thought I was going crazy.
Tbf I do think it qualifies as title gore and at the very least it is missing a comma before "ending"
Trying to imagine being the human who wrote that headline, sat back, and said "Yeah that'll do!"
ICJ so slow Wikipedia writes down the conclusion in advance.
Unfortunately they can't quote Wikipedia directly in their work, but they can use the sources in the article.
In the past I have donated to wikipedia this made sure I will keep donating.
I have too. Thank you for the reminder.
The people who disagree probably can't reconcile that who they consider the good guys can do very evil things. That's in addition to those who actually consider Palestinians subhuman or worse.
You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain.
Just donated to Wikipedia.