“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”
Labour and the Tories are not the same. The purpose of the narrative that they are is to foster and maintain voter apathy.
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
38 points (77.9% liked)
UK Politics
3015 readers
139 users here now
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both [email protected] and [email protected] .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.
[email protected] appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Labour and the Tories are not the same
No, they're not. But that doesn't make them good. Less bad, perhaps, but good is a stretch.
The purpose of the narrative that they are is to foster and maintain voter apathy.
Voters are apathetic because they rarely (if ever) get to vote for something, usually it's voting to stop something/somebody else.
I agree that voting these days seems to be about “holding one’s nose” and picking the party most likely to stop something.
I blame FPTP.
At the moment, if you’re right-leaning there’s essentially just one party of note but if you’re left-leaning you’ve got some choices.
With PR, I believe more people would be able to just vote for what they want to see.
load more comments
(8 replies)
This is a good summary of Labour's actual policy positions, which are very different from your characterisation of them. You obviously have the right to vote for whoever you want to, for whatever reasons, but it's better to root your behaviour in reality, not rhetoric.
Thank you! It's actually worrying how much people seem to be basing their idea of what party policy will be on soundbites they've heard.
This country is in dire need of some political literacy. Thinking that the Tories and Lib Dems are somehow better on LGBQT issues than Labour would be hilarious if it wasn't a damning indictment of the intelligence of British voters.
Would you be able to unlock the article for us by any chance? 🙏
Search for it on archive.is
If you're on Firefox you can add a filter for paywalls to uBlock Origin.
Will do thanks!
load more comments
(17 replies)
You don't vote FOR a party in a first past the post system. You tactivally vote against.
@Garfvynneve What I tell them I'm planning to do doesn't have to match with what I'll actually do.
We all can do this to demand better.
The famous Labour double bind:
If a left leaning Labour lose the election, it's because they don't appeal to voters. If a right leaning Labour lose the election, it's because the left didn't vote for them.
@Fedegenerate I didn't say I won't vote for them, I just told them they had lost my vote.
Staying silent and voting for a not good enough Labour let's them think they are. Telling them I won't even though I might vote for them, and describing why, gives them an opportunity to evaluate.
If they're not good enough for you and yours what are you doing to change that? My strategy is one way. There are others.
don't think I'm describing what you think I'm describing.
I'm describing the no win situation right leaning Labour supporters try to force left leaning people into.
I.e. 1 When a Labour leader they don't like loses an election it's the left's fault. 2 When a leader they do like loses an election it's the left's fault.
I saw the same double bind being envoked in this thread, so I thought I'd highlight it.
load more comments
(4 replies)
Can you vote tactically for Lib Dem or Greens without risking more votes going to the Tories?
Tactically speaking, you can vote for the party you want to win only if you are absolutely certain that a) the tories have such a strong majority there isn’t a chance of anyone else getting in; b) some other party has such a majority there isn’t a chance of the Tories getting in. Otherwise you vote for the non-Tory party (or party that will not ally with the Tories) that is most likely to make it in your area.
I still vote tactically because there have historically been some close results where I live, but I’m sick of voting for parties I don’t want to win. I decided to become a member of the political party that I felt I was in most in line with, despite the fact I rarely vote for them. Small gesture, I know.
@ThePyroPython My email has struck a chord and I've had a response today. My local Labour parliamentary candidate wants to chat with me. I'll see what they have to say and report back.
load more comments
(16 replies)
As far as I'm concerned, the worst case scenario (by a very large margin) is another Tory government. I'll be doing everything I can this side of campaigning for Labour (my MP is Labour and he's alright, my local councillors are also Labour and active and all the ball, but I can't bring myself to actual promote a party who's policies I struggle to endorse). So that's mainly sending out tactical voting information and offering lifts to the polling stations.
@Emperor I agree, Tory is worst. I don't have to let a not good enough Labour think they are good enough.
Recall I *told* Labour they lost my vote, that doesn't mean I can't exercise my vote in any way that effectively gets the Tories out, which includes actually voting for Labour.
Same. Their acceptance of current Tory actions like not revoking new oil and gas licenses and child benefit cap. Also watering down their own environmental policy. These things in our current situation are inexcusable.
They pander to Tory voters, bigots, and stay on the side of big business and the media.
The Greens have my vote.
The Overton Window has shifted so far to the right, any “more progressive” party that has a chance of getting into power kinda has to play to the crowd. It’ll take time for it to shift back to a more “familiar” (centre) left.
I do feel you on some issues here. Others like Europe I think are well left alone this election after the last election was a one topic vote eventually.
Personally I'll still be voting labour, as things stand, mainly because my MP is an old school labour type and having people like that lose and leave the party doesn't help to shift it leftwards again and also there was only a few thousand in it last time and a neutered version of labour is still preferable to more Tories.
However Starmers leadership has made it feel less like holding my nose to got and more like I need a full hazmat suit.
view more: next ›