this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
149 points (99.3% liked)

TechTakes

1361 readers
199 users here now

Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

i haven't played magic the gathering in ages but i still follow it for some reason. if you're not checked in with the game, here's what's been going on in recent years: it's been enshittifying. i'm fascinated by when gacha games (which this essentially is) start putting the screws to players. here are some of the ways it's gone down

  • the game used to have rigorous processes for managing balance, processes which sometimes failed spectacularly, but held up most of the time. empirically, that's pretty much gone. almost all of the cards that have ever been banned in the standard format have come from the last several years, and they printed a mechanic so broken that they errata'd it to cost more. to be clear, this is a game that is played with physical cards that the text can't be changed on. the situation was so dire that they just said "ok everyone should know, ignore the text on the cards, they are too broken the way we made them."
  • they thought a bit about how the majority of their playerbase wasn't playing the somewhat competitive 1 vs 1 style the game was originally designed for. instead, most people play several person free for all formats, in particular these days a format called commander. so they've been absolutely shredding these people's wallets and ruining their games by designing rare cards specifically to end up being powerful in commander. recently they printed a commander card so busted in various formats that the former friend of mine who designed it ended up falling on his sword, writing an extremely apologetic essay about how he personally fucked up by letting it slip through.
  • there's a whole much larger drama around the commander format that i haven't got the energy to go into here. the most tolerable summary is that they printed a card so ridiculous that the format dissolved and was remade under a wave of death threats when it was banned. i know that doesn't make sense, just trust me, or write your own summary of it.
  • they found out that the more cards they come out with, the more cards they sell, so they've just been cranking out designs at greater and greater volume. at any given time there is a massive chunk of cards that are about to hit the shelves, and which they're 'teasing' and fomoing players about. the game is about 30 years old and they've been hitting a pace of printing something like 10% to 15% of all cards ever, every year.
  • every once in a while they release joke sets, with weird or silly mechanics like having to yell things or tearing up cards. generally, these cards are not allowed in semi competitive play. well, they thought the most recent one would sell better if that wasn't the case, so they marked as many of these cards as they could as being tournament legal (but to keep the outcry tamped down, not in their standard format). one of these cards in particular, a goblin that makes you put stickers on things, was so miserable to have in tournament play that they ended up backtracking and banning all the joke cards.
  • they found out they could make a big chunk of money by ditching their own setting and making cards for licensed IPs. they've been printing ever increasing numbers of cards themed around everything from the walking dead to fortnite to marvel to street fighter to spongebob, which sell like hotcakes. people who are invested in the style and theme of magic the gathering aren't super pleased. again, to placate the haters, these cards are not allowed in the standard competitive format, giving people who want to do wizard shit a refuge.

the last bullet point brings us to today: just kidding, frog boiled, you will now have captain america and kefka fighting each other at your table whether you like it or not. reactions are not entirely positive:

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1gc3w97/universes_beyond_will_enter_through_standard/

something that's quite interesting to me is how few people i've seen bootlick for wizards of the coast in recent years. i've looked at reactions to other games enshittifying and always saw lots of defenders of the company in charge, with four lines of attack being most common:

  • they have to put bread on the table
  • whew i know this seems bad but i would be ok with it if they just gave us 2% more crumbs. it's sooooo close to the right level of abuse
  • stop being poor
  • bro, just vote with your dollar bro

i've been seeing very little of that in regards to mtg. some people have denied the pot was getting warmer, but mostly, people have just turned into haters. not sure why; perhaps it has to do with the small scale social aspect of magic. if you're playing marvel snap and having the blood drained out of your neck, you don't really have a group of specific people you're experiencing that in concert with; with mtg you do. it could be the strength of small scale personal ties that both keeps people invested in this game, and makes people angry at how that investment is being treated

unfortunately i don't see any reason that this anger is likely to put a stop to things. after all, arch-enshittifier facebook is still making ultrabucks, despite having destroyed its reputation on every possible level and despite constantly enraging its users. you can do horrible things to people and just coast! it works!

EDIT: this is election relevant btw https://awful.systems/comment/5086076

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 5 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

when I was in college one of my old high school buddies who kinda fell off the deep end after graduation got really into magic. he would spend most of his pay every week on magic cards and would come to the college campus and hang out at the cafeteria to play magic with a few students. it was seriously disturbing to watch because he was always kind of an outcast and came from a VERY weird family and he got sucked in about as hard as any drug addict.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 23 hours ago

Reading news like this about MTG makes me feel so torn.

On the one hand it's juicy, like reading those AITA threads on Reddit.

On the other this is a game that was a big part of my childhood and early adulthood, and it makes me sad that MTG has not been that game for a very long time.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

I have never up voted something purely on reaction to the title, but I knew what this was going to be as soon as I saw it.

Mtg is dead to me now. I don't give a fuck about secret lair, I hate playing commander, and I absolutely despise these off-theme universes beyond sets.

I haven't bought any cards in ages because I just don't feel like collecting anymore. Nevertheless, the game continues on without me. I am no longer the target demographic, and it sucks, because magic was special.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

It's the imbalance of power. No one wants to be the gatekeeper at the local game store telling the 12 year old kid "Sorry, you can't play your Spongebob deck here tonight", whereas as the ones printing the cards, they can be gatekeepers of "Sorry, you can't play your deck without the One Ring here tonight" off of the basis of "normal" power creep.

[–] blockheadjt -5 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

There have been people making posts like this for years.

The Companion screw-up was years ago now.

"This anger" is nothing new. Move along if you want.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 17 hours ago

There have been people making posts like this for years.

🤔

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

While magic has always been exploitative, this feels like 'there is just too much'. Not sure if that makes sense. But more and more I see these franchises bloat and bloat and bloat with more and more content. And it just shatters any desire I have to even get back into it. And this isn't just a problem with magic, it is a problem with all these IPs. It feels very late stage superhero comics, where every character had such a long incomprehensive background that it was impossible to follow (and also a lot of 'to understand this storyline completely, you need to also buy a few random comics from a different story line. What do you mean to understand the last star wars movie I need to have played fortnite?).

And you know when the IP's fill up too much and the sales finally slump they will just kill half the content anyway, to refill it with more slop later (AI is going to be grand for this), or rebrand it, marvel ultimates style (but wait, it is all part of a universe, so it is all true. Eurgh). At least star wars killed their expanded universe so these old storylines no longer intersect (ow wait, they are selectively bringing stuff back of course. But wait, if new Thrawn has not done what old Thrawn has done, how is he cool? He didn't even throw rocks at people, this is all a scam!)

And don't take me as some sort of design minimalist btw, I do at times like kitchen sink designs (like nethack/slash'em for example). But this eternal milking and adding more and more to IPs is just too much. And it isn't just the world building, it is also nothing is just one thing anymore. Everything has the book(*)/videogame/movie/boardgame/bathsoap/mouthwash tiein. Anyway bit of a rant sorry.

*: you know the strange character that was underdeveloped in Rebel Moon (No not that one. The other one)? Well it is worked out better in Rebel Moon the directors cut. You saw that and it actually made the plot worse because of a glaring plot hole? Well that is explained in the book. AAAA

Edit: and it isn't just IPs who go for more and more. Presenting the Chick-Fil-A streaming/entertainment app (amazing how in a way the USA has seen the pillarisation problem of the past Netherlands and thought, we are going to do that but with a lot of capitalism added on top).

E2: More examples comparing somewhat regular outputs with ever expanding IP slops. All of HP Lovecrafts fiction work basically fits into 3 books. Look at the size of the mythos that spawned. But also compared the impressive output of somebody like Charles Stross, he has written about ~45 books (from a quick count of wikipedia, not counting collections/reprints). Compare that to Warhammer 40k's Horus Heresy, this book series (it is also 2 board games, and a card game) is 64 books long. With the last story, being written over 10 books (and 3 of those 10 are basically a trilogy). That is an insane amount of books, and it is only about a small part of the whole universe. People have to be unemployed to keep up with this kind of shit.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago (17 children)

the Chick-Fil-A streaming/entertainment app

the worst chicken place[*] has a fucking streaming app? of course it fucking does, chick-fil-a can’t fuck off

[*] if anyone replies to this to kneejerk slobber over chick-fil-a’s nasty fucking chicken: why. which part of it is good. it’s not the sauces or the brine or the breading and it’s definitely not some combination of all those things. why the fuck is this garbage fried chicken popular when literally every other choice is better. please for the love of fuck eat some Church’s or try a local place, you’ll discover the idea of flavor and it’ll astound you

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

Ayo brother I am with you, Chick-fil-A is pretty bottom tier chicken. It's like what white people who think ketchup is spicy think of when they think of good fried chicken.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No idea about the chicken as im not american. Just know they are openly bigots or at least celebrated by them. So this felt like a shitty attempt to create a culture war broad brand of crap. Only dress yourself in chickafil crap to show you are not lgbt and watch the unfunny anti lgbt cartoons etc.

Lol at you starting the fast food discussion btw.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

asking why chick-fil-a’s bland-ass chicken is good is a better insomnia cure than counting sheep

load more comments (15 replies)
[–] [email protected] 69 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

40+ year old unpopular opinion: MTG has always been pay to win.

I was too poor to dump money into the game as a kid and an adult.

Whatever critcisisms about "enshittification" this game was born to enshittify based on being pay to win.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah that was my read of the game from my first exposure to it. "You have to buy cards sight-unseen hoping to get good ones? That's a scam."

It's like they looked at Dungeons and Dragons product churn and thought "No, that's not shitty enough"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Yeah my thought always was if it was a real game they would allow home printed copies.

[–] blockheadjt -2 points 18 hours ago

If you want specific cards, buy those cards.

Nobody is forcing you to buy packs. Only buy those if you want the thrill of mystery.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 days ago (8 children)

i mean i describe it as a gacha game in the third sentence, i'm pretty clear about that. mtg has always been exploitative, they're just taking it to another level now

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago

I stopped playing way back during the Urza block. You needed a $500 deck to be competitive in 1999. I can't imagine what it costs these days.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The writing has been on the wall since they reprinted Alpha as non playable $250 packs.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

That was when i stopped playing, i knew it was all downhill from there and looking back i was correct

[–] mindbleach 1 points 1 day ago

Jesus fuck, even MTG got baited into copying Fortnite.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

As an alternative that does not require booster packs or such nonsense i can highly recommend Compile and the Vale of eternity. Both very good cardgames that capture different feelings of playing a deckbuilder.

Never cared for CCGs since they are by definition pay to win.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago

It does feel like this was textbook rot economy BS, right? Destroying an (I assume) profitable product in search of increased growth, no matter how unsustainable? I only ever picked it up properly through Arena, which definitely colors my experiences with it. The whole engine seems set up to only support 1v1 play rather than any of the fun play-with-your-friends formats that are really the lifeblood of most players. This is also the reason why StarCraft 2 never fully eclipsed Brood War, even among hardcore professional competitive types. But so many of the set design issues, mechanic failures, and balance issues have also impacted their preferred format (and the Arena main focus), Standard. Like, the Companion mechanic was the last attempt to try and convert Commander players into standard players, and then they gave up. There's a half-baked 1v1 commander in Arena now (Brawl) which has never been fully supported the way Standard is even though they ostensibly use the same card pool.

While they've been fighting their most popular format for control of the game, their other big changes have been similarly half-baked attempts to bring in new outside players. I can't speak to how well they actually worked, but I don't know how much of the audience that was brought in by a 40k or Fallout tie-in are going to picking up the game and starting to actually play (or more importantly from WotC's perspective, buy). I don't imagine it's a very large fraction, and it has diluted the MtG brand beyond recognition.

load more comments
view more: next ›