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The Largest Study Ever on UBI Was Just Conducted—The Results Are Disappointing for Advocates (fee.org)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by Amoxtli@thelemmy.club to c/economy@lemmy.world

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

What did people do with the extra time they got from working less? In short, the answer is, they relaxed.

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

from their own webpage:

The Foundation for Economic Education is an American conservative, libertarian economic think tank.

i never thought i would see such nakedly late-stage capitalist drivel passed off as news on the lemmyverse; but i guess if it were going to happen anywhere here, it could come from the reddit induced echo chamber instances.

[+] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club -20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

FEE didn't conduct the study. In regard to economics, libertarians have more credibility than socialist. Socialist don't care about economics. Socialism isn't economics. Economics is almost synonymous with capitalism and free markets. Instead of raging, maybe you should explain what socialism is, and, how it works, and why it is superior.

[–] karobeccary@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

He didn't mention socialism.

[+] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club -10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

There is only capitalism and socialism. Socialism, communism, and Marxism are anti-capitalist. Communism is a form of socialism.

[–] jlou@mastodon.social 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There are other alternatives like economic democracy. Capitalism vs socialism is a false dichotomy

@economy

[–] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club -5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

There is no such thing as economic democracy because democracy isn't economics. It is politics. Socialism originally was a theory that capitalism was blocked by the use of money. To replace money, you need socialism to be centrally plan how and what people will work. Otherwise, who will take up jobs that are least pleasing, such as taking out the trash. What people claim to be socialism today is an idea of accessing resources at the expense of others. These are government programs with socialist traits, for example, how the Baby Boomers enjoyed the benefits of entitlement programs while generations afterward are going to foot the bill. That is a Ponzi scheme, which how socialism works, in reality, to be pleasing for people. It is a system that requires suckers who do most of the work.

[–] jlou@mastodon.social -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Democracy is the idea that positive control rights over an organization should be assigned to the party governed in or by that organization. This concept is applicable in an economic context. For example, the workers in a firm are governed by management, so democracy implies that the managers be ultimately accountable to the entire body of workers in that firm making the firm a worker co-op.

Capitalism has workers do 100% of the work, but employers receive 100% of the whole product

@economy

[–] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club -4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You mean a cooperative? Those already exist. No need for "democratic economy".

[–] jlou@mastodon.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem with capitalism is the non-cooperative firms that exist. A democratic economy is an economy where all firms are mandated to be worker cooperatives

@economy

[–] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club -4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Cooperatives operate on equal votes, not equity, which is a potential problem in itself. Equal votes over who has the bigger stake. Liberal economics is better. Trying to impose a system instead of simply giving economic agents the freedom, and make suggestions themselves on how best to form and run business. Equality isn't a economic good.

[–] jlou@mastodon.social 1 points 5 months ago

The arguments for worker coops are based on liberal economics (https://www.ellerman.org/inalienable-rights-part-i-the-basic-argument/). To summarize, the workers are jointly de facto responsible for using up inputs to produce outputs, so by the norm that legal and de facto responsibility should match, they should be assigned the whole product of the firm. Anything else would be unjust.

Equal votes doesn't mean equal pay. Workers can divide the pie however they prefer. In existing worker coops, not everyone gets paid the same.

@economy

[–] cy@fedicy.us.to -2 points 5 months ago

You wanna vote on who owns what?

Democratic economy. :p

CC: @jlou@mastodon.social

[–] karobeccary@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Absolute nonsense.

[–] blarth@thelemmy.club 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Oh no, they relaxed? Well now, we can’t just have the poors take a break from wage slavery. They must do something!!

[–] Habahnow 1 points 4 months ago

How interesting. I would like to see future similar studies conducted to see if that matches up with this studies since they seem to contradict others. I wonder where the differences lie.