this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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228
Is It Fascism? A Leading Historian Changes His Mind. Robert Paxton thought the label was overused. But now he’s alarmed by what he sees in global politics — including Trumpism. (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 4 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 68 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

We tried telling you if you wait until this far along you won't be able to vote out the fascism. Maybe Trump doesn't get in, that doesn't stop the militias huntind down FEMA responders, or the ones who tried to kidnap a governor, or the one who successfully got into Pelosis house and assaulted her husband. That doesn't stop Paxton from getting away with everything and the kitchen sink in Texas including stopping federal agents from preventing Texases attempts to kill migrants or stop Florida from being Florida (enough said there). And that's without even talking about abortion access and threats against inter racial marrige.

None of that goes away if and when Trump does. The roots are set, no one with the power to act did anything soon enough and this fascism will linger for another decade in the best case scenario. History makes this historian look like someone who wouldn't call Hitler a fascist until aftet the night of long knives. In short, a chump.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

While I generally agree with what you said, I'm not convinced Trumpism doesn't die or at least go back into its hole when he goes away.

Trumpism is really nothing more than a power grab by an authoritarian who uses white nationalism rhetoric to enthrall the baser segment of society and amass a voting base to maintain power long enough to undermine democracy.

Trump could die tomorrow, and there's a dozen wannabe authoritarians that would try to fill that void and run on Trumpism.

I'm not convinced there's any MAGAts out there than can inspire the base, get the MAGAts in Congress to coalesce behind them, and solidify the financial support of the Musks, Thiels, etc of the oligarchy.

[–] humblebun 29 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

You know, the world is not the US. Fascism's rising all around the globe and Trump is merely a symptom of a much bigger disaster.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Sure, but I was specifically talking about the US.

That said, when the US has a potential leader embracing fascism/authoritarianism, it creates an opportunity for the growth of those political ideologies across the world.

Keeping Trump out of office and believers in democracy in office will help blunt the power and growth of fascism across the globe. It's not the sole solution, but it's quite important that the most powerful country in the world not elect fascists.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

USA is not the most powerful or influential country in the world.

In a neighborhood where every home except USA has universal healthcare, living wages, metric system, climate agreements, accountability, proportionate security, and low gun violence, USA is the crazy house that just shouts about how everyone else is wrong and waves its giant arsenal.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago

Yeah, OK, the US isn't the most economically and militarily powerful country, and by extension, politically powerful🙄

To say otherwise makes you not serious

As does bringing the metric system into the argument

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago

As someone from one of those other houses in the neighbourhood, yeah, nah the US is certainly the most powerful and influential in the world.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago

The fascists won't go away when trump does. They were there long before trump. Plotting a Hitler style fascist overthrow of FDRin the 1930s even as Hitler stomped around Europe. Before trump was even born. And many of those implicated suffered no personal repercussions after being outed. The son and grandson of one going on to become modern Republican war starting presidents.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

The fascist rank and file don't go away because they no longer see themselves among a cavalcade of strongmen impersonators, they have been invigorated and organizing to find each other thanks to how mainstream fasicms has become. They will either identify with one, take matters into their own hands like some brown shirt vigilantes, or best case, split among a few different people. That kind of post leader schism is what turned the Black Panthers into the Bloods and the Crips.

Maga got violent when Trump won making 'random' hate crime rates spike, and they organized to attempt a coup when he lost. The violence is unavoidable at this point, thats the point behind saying you can't vote this out. There is no peaceful transition away from fascism. We can only hope they're at each others throats instead of ours.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

Fascism needs a strong leader - authoritarianism is at the core of fascism. Of course the rank and file don't go away, but without a strong leader, they lose their power.

Serious question: Referring back to the points I made in my previous post, who is going to effectively step into the fascism void in the US when Trump is gone?

Vance? He's a clown and isn't a true believer in Trumpism

DeSantis? Another clown

Ken Paxton? He's evil enough but not sure he has the charisma to inspire the MAGAts

Trump's base is comprised of sniveling sycophants who don't have the personality, influence, or will to actually try and take over

[–] francoperdu 19 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Better late than never?

[–] nkat2112 4 points 4 weeks ago

I came here to literally post what you entered - verbatim - but I was too late.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

"Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Checks out.

I was going to push back on this bit, "subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race" as the US is all about individualism but then I remembered that the MAGA people are doing this anyway. They're a homogeneous group that drives lifted trucks, obsesses about guns, and wears the same types of clothes.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 weeks ago

A huge one is that they've stripped away the individual right to abortion by way of the right to privacy.

And the MAGA dipshits cheer it, because they don't realize what they've really lost.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago

Nice to see the slow ones catching up. Would have been great if they never shoved their heads in their asses in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago

including Trumpism

New ideology just dropped

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

https://web.archive.org/web/20210312204123/https://www.newsweek.com/robert-paxton-trump-fascist-1560652 is the ny times article different substantially from his 2021 opinion?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

It's very much a reiteration and amplification of those views, and connecting them to the worldwide far-right movement, to try and keep the fascists out of power.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago

Interesting! I'll have to read it later, then

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 weeks ago

New York Times - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)Information for New York Times:

MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this source

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