this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Holy shit these comments...

Guys, I think you have over-saturated your target forum. Too many on the same site, you gotta tell the higher ups to spread it around more so it's not so obvious.

Edit: Just for folks who may not understand: Harris has to walk a fine rhetorical line before the election. People do not seem to understand that if she comes out strongly about Israel/Palestine in any way whatsoever, she will lose. People here can't seem to grasp this fact. Maybe they don't live in the US and understand the political/social climate here? Or perhaps they're just too young?

She will lose, and Trump will give Netanyahu carte blanche to expand his ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.

I wish I knew how Harris actually feels about the situation, and I believe her reticence to support Israel in the way Biden has is a good sign. But no, I wish I knew what she's going to do; all I know is that it's far better than the only other possible alternative. Anyone who's gonna say 'der how you know that,' is disingenuous as fuck. You know why. I'm not going to explain that shit again.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

Except Harris has come out with a strong stance. Ironclad support for Israel.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Do you really think the Biden administration is somehow preventing or limiting the ongoing genocide? Israel already have carte blanche. All i hear from Harris is empty words. Israel is already doing whatever they want, they're even firing on UN peacekeepers. Harris or Trump nothing is going to change. Israel will remain unpunished. Do you know how things can change? Pull the fucking plug. Turn your back on that nazi state, let them perish. Harris should focus on other problems because people with a functioning brain are not going to believe her bullshit. 40000 dead but their goal is to protect civilians but they sent 18B in military aid in one year. How can someone be fooled by that?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago (5 children)

Yup, you're right. Better give the most powerful county in the world a fascist president. That will fix things. Biden has been naughty and must be spanked at any cost.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The issue is that people fundamentally don't understand what power they actually have in this election. People are tired of a two-party dichotomy, and that is understandable, but the assignment in three weeks is to decide between Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. One of those two people will become president for the next 4 years. There are no alternatives, even if there are technically other parties on the ballot, if you are actually hoping to influence the results of the election in your favor, you absolutely need to choose between one of the two ruling parties.

A growing number of leftists have decided that, even in the absence of any election reform that would actually break the two-party system, they want to protest against it, either by voting for inviable third party spoilers, or not voting at all.

All I can see is that people are either so stupid, they don't understand the assignment, or they are so stupid they can't figure out whether Trump or Harris is the lesser evil. Either way, anyone vocally demanding that people don't for Harris is either stupid (if they consider themselves on the left), or evil (if they are actually rooting for Trump).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Yeah, what would even a 0.5% likely landslide victory for the left look like? 10% of the votes? 12%? All of them taken from Harris. Effect: Trump win, bad times for everyone not a reactionary white man.

People who advocate for that are either Russians, dumb, or desperate.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I understand your point and I agree that harris is in a tough situation figuring biden supports the genocide. However I actually think your take on her needing to walk the line is wrong. Polling actually shows a shift even with dems messaging against Palestine and pretending it all started on Oct 7th. Additionally, if she argued for stopping weapons transfers of offensive weapons, this would also be popular among Americans, a plurality of which support a ceasefire. Just adding context to say that Harris is not pro-palestinian and them banning Palestinians from the DNC has highlighted this. To specify, I will support harris this selection, but just because Trump is a fascist, not because she supports any solution to the conflict.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Lmao genocide is not a “highly complex geopolitical issue”

It is neocolonialism that has been going on for a while (not 1000 years??) and is now ramping up to full on blatant murder, genocide, and devastation for the Palestinian peoples.

I can think of something US govt can do literally right now to help; STOP GIVING ISRAEL FUCKING WEAPONS!

But then the poor investors of aero/defense industrial complex will whine and complain that their Raytheon stock went down 5% ☹️. Can’t have that now can we

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I don't think any of this is controversial to people who understand the world and don't huff paint all day.

The problem is in terms of this coming election, using these arguments to allow Trump to get into office will only make the situation far worse, and everyone knows this. Or should know it, it's pretty obvious, so it's confusing and suspect when people supposedly on the left are trying to discourage us from voting dem in a couple weeks.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There was no massive Jewish/Muslim conflict for a 1000 years in the region. The biggest massacre in the region against the Jews was probably the Siege of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099, albiet exact numbers are not available. The crusaders killed everyone in the city with a death toll as low as 3000 to as high as 70000. This includes all Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

When I tried to look at the pogroms done against Jews in the Levant the history is actually remarkably scant. While they did happen, my impression based on just reading the wiki article was that they were caught up in larger conflicts in the region and it wasn't a deliberate targetting in the same way the Tsar's cossacks targetted Jews. And in all those cases the dominant power always came to their rescue and compensated them for the damages done by their persecutors. Also it appears that the worst perps weren't Muslims, but Druze (who are not Muslims).

In short, Trump is not only highly dishonest, but also a worthless shitbag who has been struggling his entire life to enshittify the world we all live in. He is worse than Bezos or Zuckerberg, because at least Amazon is a decent shopping platform, and Zuckerberg's facebook helped many people (myself included) to reconnect with childhood friends that I thought I would never speak to again).

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (14 children)

I don’t know who is driving the Gaza protest rhetoric. It’s a question that should be answered. Because the absolute anti-Democrats narrative while simultaneously getting extraordinarily butthurt if anyone points out the Trump/Republican stance (and the fact it’s Congress that votes the Israeli aid) is indicative of foreign-based propaganda that cares NOT AT ALL about Gaza. It’s about getting Trump re-elected. Either that or the people posting here and across social media calling this war a genocide are just plain stupid or really, really feel self-fulfilled by their own anger.

You wanna complain about an actual genocide, look up what’s happening in Sudan as we speak.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 hours ago

I don’t know who is driving the Gaza protest rhetoric.

Name starts with a P and ends with utin

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 hours ago

Half of the noise will be from Russian IP addresses, and the other half will be dumb dumbs parroting it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The best part is the same people say the other genocide in Ukraine doesn't matter, and its their fault for not surrendering to Russia for peace.

So it really is curious where it's coming from.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

Actual genocode as in "what is happening in Gaza is not genocide? This place really lives up to its reputation.

But if you really want to go there, Biden recently named the perpetrators of the genocide in Sudan (The UAE) as a major defense partner to ship them advanced weapons.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 day ago (7 children)

This breaks rule 2. "No misinformation" Israel is not a 1000 years old it is less than 100 years old

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Please look up Brett Mcgurk before you praise Biden and Kamala's stance on Israel. Literally following Bush era policies in the Middle East.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Completely irrelevant. Nobody prizes it. Everyone just is aware that it's the best realistic outcome that election can have.

Third party is statistically impossible, don't lie to yourself. Trump: see meme. Harris: not as bad as Trump.

Unless you're a reactionary or an accelerationist who wants to see everything burn, the choice is clearly Harris.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago (5 children)

the funniest part about this post is that trump and kamala's statements here are functionally identical, differing only in the phrasing.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This is classic liberal brain worm nonsense.

Blue maga cultists world rather blame leftists than get your shitty candidate in line with her genocidal policies.

It's not a difficult situation to resolve: stop supplying Israel with weapons and support.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 hours ago

"Blue MAGA" is Russian propaganda. "Cultist" is GOP projection lmao

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In southeastern Michigan I have the luxury of voting for candidates at various levels of government who do oppose supplying Israel with weapons.

In the presidential election, where is the leverage?

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 day ago (6 children)

What 1000 year conflict? The nakba was less than a century ago. Plus "please stop giving 2000 pound bombs to Israel to commit a genocide with" is a very far cry from "please end the Israeli apartheid state".

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Stop killing Palestinians is such a far left position man. I can't even. Americans are effing weird.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

"Stop killing Palestinians" is a pretty popular Democrat position.

"I will hand the country over to someone who wants to kill more Palestinians faster" is a Leftist position.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 day ago (5 children)

This is not a thousand year conflict. It’s modern imperialism

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