this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2024
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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So I'm building a new computer before the end of the year and lemmy is obviously pushing me towards Linux.

I am not computer savvy, I have a family member that will help me set up my PC, but I do not want to be calling/messaging them every day when I want to open a program.

Basically my question comes down to: can I operate a Linux PC these days without needing to troubleshoot or type code.

I use my computer about once a week for a few hours I would say, so any time spent troubleshooting is time wasted.

Thanks!

EDIT: since a lot of people are asking what programs I typically use, I'll just list my most used programs.

Word, Excel, ect(I'm fine with alternatives)

Spotify

Gimp (would have been a make or break, so I'm glad it's supported)

Brave browser (browser is a browser)

Steam

Discord

I would say that while I could figure out how the kernels work, I'm at a point with computers these days where I don't have the time. My priorities fall with a seamless daily experience. If I have the time to figure something out I can, but ideally my day to day usage being unbotherd is what I'm after.

A lot of the comments so far have been helpful! I'm definitely going to give Linux a fair shot with my new build, probably start with Mint.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Most of that sounds pretty easy to pull off. I have a few thoughts, though:

  • What games do you run in Steam?
  • Just a bit of a warning: Discord is annoying about updates, at least with the Debian version. I can't remember what the Flatpak does.
  • For MS Office, most distros should come with LibreOffice. If you have problems with LibreOffice, then Google Docs should be fine.
  • You'll have to run Spotify from the browser, but I imagine that won't be a problem, as you're probably not an audiophile
  • Run GIMP as a Flatpak, as distro versions tend to have weird bugs with the resynthesizer plugin.
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I had a friend who was about as computer illiterate as they come, they had a crappy gateway laptop(netbook maybe) that had kubuntu on it they preferred it to when they had win vista(yes this was forever ago, i replaced vista with kubuntu because it was lighter than gnome at the time) they loved the kde interface and most of what they did was Myspace Tumblr and Facebook, but even they managed to figure out play on Linux and wine after a few months

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes. Linux has become more user-friendly than Windows. Things stay were they are so it is reliable. It doesn't serve ads nor spies on the user so it is ethical. When updating one sees exactly what happens, and one can have perfect manual control of updates if one wants to. That and so much more.

Sidenote, perhaps consider using Vivaldi browser as it is superior for now, pre Manifest V3. However, if one wants to keep using uBlock Origin indefinitely regardless of the Manifest V3 transition, use LibreWolf which ships with uBlock Origin by default.

Over the years I went from Linux Mint to Xubuntu to EndeavourOS, and from desktop environment Xfce to KDE Plasma. To beginners who absolutely want the least amount of updates and don't mind older software versions I'd suggest a Debian based distribution, and to everyone else I'd suggest an Arch-based distribution, specifically EndeavourOS, or Manjaro if one cannot install the former for some reason, but both are fine. Why? I like to update as soon as possible and to have access to most software without it being a hassle to install. Moreover, Arch has a ridiculously comprehensive wiki which most of the time has the answer to one's problem.

KDE Plasma over Xfce because it's a remarkably configurable feature-rich powerhouse, but I honestly feel bad and wish I could merge them both. If old machines feel too slow for the former, the choice would be Xfce in a heartbeat because it is fast, minimalistic, and also highly configurable.

I moved away from the aforementioned Debian/Ubuntu based distributions because Mint was too bloated and slow for my taste. Specifically, as a former gamer I am highly sensitive to the responsiveness of the cursor, therefore the move to Xubuntu with Xfce where the mouse movement felt snappy again. Unfortunately Snap packages came to both which caused more problems than it solved, so I moved to Arch-based distributions and never looked back.

TL;DR: if new computers did not come with Windows pre-installed—the absurdity of this monopoly remains mind blowing—Linux would be significantly more pleasant to use for most of the populace. I bet my life on that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

The only barrier to entry is creating a usb installer. Once you’re past that, there’s nothing more than basic computer knowledge to do what you need to do. By basic, I mean knowing how to use a computer, so you should be good. Just choose a user friendly distro like Mint and you won’t need to open the terminal at all unless something really bad happens.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yes. If you want something easy, look at:

  • Pop!_OS (Ubuntu-based, great for newbies)
  • Linux Mint (Ubuntu-based, great for newbies)
  • Spiral Linux (Debian, easy to set up, rock solid)
  • Aurora (Fedora Atomic based, hard to break, automatic updates)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

In depends on how dumb the user is. If you want to see drive C:\ and don't want to learn why there's no such a thing, forget about Linux (and any other OS except the only one you are familiar with). If you are ready to learn new concepts and just don't want to remember numerous commands, that's OK, just pick up a distro with advanced DE and graphical admin tools.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

No more tricky than windows these days. Nice thing is there's a lack of commercial BS - spyware, ads, unwanted apps etc. And pretty much no matter how old your computer gets, you can still run brand new linux on it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Depends on the distro.

I found Linux Mint good enough for 99% of things, and most problems can be solved without a terminal.

Problem is you’d still need to know enough about Linux (just like with windows) to troubleshoot. For example, the files app was causing an error when plugging in drives, I need to figure out that the files app wasn’t call files, but nemo, it’s config lived in a hidden folder called .config in my home folder, and in .config I could delete my configuration to fix my issue.

In my view Linux is about Windows XP or 7 in terms of usability, a bit of a learning curve, but one worth learning.

A few modern improvements which makes using Linux easier.

Use Flatpaks where possible, it’s platform agnostic and usually supported by the actual devs.

AppImages (think portable exe for windows), are another option, but to “install” them you’d need an app called Gear Lever.

Check with an apps developer before installing, flatpaks can be packaged by anyone, and they might loose support (steam for example is installable via Deb not flatpak).

[–] captain_aggravated 4 points 2 months ago

In the last four years I've built three gaming PCs and installed Linux on two and Windows on one.

If you can install Windows on a PC, you can install Linux on a PC. The process of getting the ISO, writing it to a thumb drive, using the BIOS to boot to the thumb drive is the same. The Windows installer is kind of its own environment, but most Linux distros will boot to a "Live environment" that gives you a full desktop you can try out and use before installing, and the installer runs like any other program. Some automatically launch it, some give you an icon to click on the desktop. The installer will ask you the same basic things, though Windows asks you more stuff about their proprietary garbage.

The last time I installed Windows, (Win 10 about a year, year and a half ago) it started up with a fallback video driver and 800x600 resolution, and I had to use Edge to download the GPU driver from AMD's website. I've never had to do that on Linux; AMD drivers are supported directly by the Linux kernel and work out of the box.

I have an unusual speaker system that makes a loud popping sound when the sound chip in the computer turns on and off, so I have to disable a power saving feature by putting a line in a config file. That line I copied and pasted from a forum. It's entirely because I have this weird old sound system of mine; the vast majority of folks won't have to do that.

I'll note that I also choose hardware specifically for Linux compatibility. I use AMD GPUs, I make sure to use Intel wireless chips, I have desktop peripherals that don't require those goofy dashboard apps to configure. Generally go with as normal as you can.

If you're coming from Windows, I would suggest trying the Cinnamon or KDE desktops, in the look and feel department they're probably going to be closer to what you're used to with robust graphical tools.

Standard disclaimer: Linux is not Windows. You will have some learning and adjusting to do as you get used to a new ecosystem. I don't think Windows or Linux are free of "troubleshooting." Stuff goes wrong on Windows too. Thing is, with Linux you can...learn how to fix it?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Depends on the distribution. And how used you are to windows.

Imo, for the easiest possible experience, choose fedora and use it sorta like desktop android.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Steam ⇒ No Ubuntu

For Word/Excel alternatives, I would suggest LibreOffice fresh. So, go with one that gives recent versions of it ^[I hated the problems with older versions, which seem to be greatly reduced in the newer ones].

can I operate a Linux PC these days without needing to troubleshoot or type code.

That will vary greatly depending upon your Hardware selection. I was lucky enough to manage a good enough setup (adding extra effort to check Motherboard components) for Linux support and still have a few problems. [I am unable to get CPU fan speed (tachometer reading).]

I like Endeavour OS, but it being rolling on Arch, means, it is for someone who is happy with troubleshooting and bug reporting.

I had tried Open SUSE for a bit (back then, I hardy knew Linux) and liked that too.

Debian probably won't work either, because, even though it is something you probably won't need to troubleshoot for years, once setup, Steam will make it hard for you and Discord, well, no idea. I removed it after declining the new TOS.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Why Steam -> no ubuntu? EDIT: Ah, i see. I didnt have that problem because i always used pop os

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Maybe this article would be a good indicator.

By default, Ubuntu will give the Snap version, which Steam devs don't like to support.
And installing another version will probably require some configuration and terminal stuff, so I'd suggest going with something that plays well with Valve.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is true. And it's also why I always recommend downloading steam through their website. They distribute their own Deb directly, and it auto updates.

Flatpak version is also okay but if you want to use a secondary disk then you need to know how to use portals (or the Flatpak configuration tool that I can't remember the name of).

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[–] ThrowawayPermanente 3 points 2 months ago

It could be a bumpy road, but go for it. Remember that no matter what happens, someone else has probably been there before and has asked for help online

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Honestly if you figured out lemmy you can figure out linux at least enough not to be a 95yo about it.

Use a distro that is both popular and good for beginners, like Fedora or it's KDE spin, or Mint. There will be learning, there probably will be troubleshooting, you're switching from something you've always been familiar with to a new thing, it is unavoidable. It's like moving to Mexico, you'll need to pick up at least a little Spanish. It's really not as hard as people make it seem, most questions will be solved by searching the problem and pasting in a terminal command, but it's good to learn what those commands do over time. It might benefit you to use the computer more often while learning if possible.

Do it, you'll be fine!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

There's kind of a bell curve of users where their needs are so simple that Linux use is great for them. They'll never do anything more complex than visit a webpage in Firefox, and that's great.

Then as your needs get more and more complex, Linux isn't quite a good fit -- You'll want to use a specific printer, or a specific software (looking at you solidworks!), or you'll have some sort of organization that requires you use MS Office, etc. -- There are ways around all of that stuff, but if you're not already on the train, it can get frustrating.

Up until your needs get even more complex, where Linux starts becoming the best choice again - You want a tiling window manager, and ipv6 with firewall and ZFS on the network etc.

It's the middle bell curve where your new user is already kind-of a power user, but not quite a technical-user yet that gets people.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

I guess uBlues main images are. I use Fedora Atomic Kinoite, which is not ready at all.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Depends what you use and how you use it. With how I use my computer, I have issues on Windows that require terminal input to solve and are more confusing than many of the Linux issues I face, but the way I use Linux also requires terminal. Some applications just work better or only on terminal whether you're on Windows or Linux and some debugging steps will inevitably take you down the dark road of decade old menus and terminal commands.

Day to day basic tasks though? It shouldn't need any special knowledge, provided that you don't follow the wrong online tutorials like I did when starting out. For example, Firefox was out of date so I looked up how to update Firefox. The package manager did not have a new version and I didn't think to manually go into settings and refresh the repository (stores auto update, right? Well, no actually...). Basically I ended up trying to install via a .deb package from their website... it didn't work and I felt Linux was dumb. What I should have done was update my OS and package manager first or simply sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade (yes this is terminal, sorry). My point is, sometimes you have to realise the question you are asking is flawed and not the system.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

You can try Linux out without installing it to get a feel for it before you make the jump. Set a weekend aside (or at least a couple of hours) to test drive a Linux distro and check if it is your cup of tea.

This is one way of doing this:

  • Install Virtual Box on your (Widows) PC
  • head over to https://getaurora.dev/ and download the latest iso
  • In virtualbox create a new VM
    • set the OS Type to fedora (64 bit)
    • after that you can keep all the standard settings, just be aware that performance is not going to be representative of an actual install
  • Then select the newly created VM and open the settings panel
    • here you go to "Storage" and click on the slot under "Controler: IDE" labeled "empty"
    • click on the CD symbol on the right side of the window, in line with "optical drive" and select "choose a disk file"
    • pick the iso file you downloaded in step 2
  • close the settings window and start the VM
  • go through the installation wizard to install Aurora OS in your Virtual Machine
  • Profit

I know that these instructions can seem daunting but it is easier than it reads, I promise.

Why Aurora OS

Aurora OS is based on Fedora Silverblue meaning that it is what is known as a immutable distro. That in turn means that it's harder to mess stuff up and break your install. It also means that some things are harder to achieve. But I also think that you are probably not interested in the hard stuff anyway.

Aurora uses the KDE Plasma Desktop, the same desktop used by Valve on the Steamdeck. It has a familiar Windows like layout by default but also allows you to customise it like crazy to fit your particular need (whatever that may be).

Aurora flatpak as it's app format. To see what kind of software is available for this distro you can check flathub.org . It's not going to be as much software as Linux Mint for example (Mint uses flatpak and deb), but everything the average user needs should be there.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

If the PC you're building has the latest and greatest hardware in it, you might find that Linux might not support that stuff yet. You might get lucky, but you might not either. It usually takes a little while to get new hardware supported. So it might be a better idea to install Linux on your older computer, then there's no reason to buy a new PC anyway. Linux uses about half the RAM that Windows uses, for example, so it's like you did an upgrade anyway. As long as you have over 4 GB of RAM, you're fine for desktop usage. Windows requires 8 to run as well that Linux does at 4. You'd only need to upgrade if you're after extreme gaming support.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You should be fine doing what you want on Linux. Just make sure everything works before installing completely. There is a liveUSB mode that let's you try it before you install.

Mint and PoP os are good ones to try.

Can also check out Zorin os which is pretty good too but doesn't update as often.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I would say dual boot so you can use windows when you can't figure something out

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I will recommend you Fedora Budgie Edition. You will never need to open terminal on it and interface is more user friendly.

[–] Codilingus 2 points 2 months ago

If you decide yes, I highly recommend Fedora Silverblue, or any of the distros based on silverblue/ublue. I myself love Bazzite for gaming.

Those are atomic and immutable, meaning you cannot easily break core files, and every single thing can be updated in the app store. It's the windows equivalent of not being able to modify/delete C:\Windows; and getting firmware, drivers, applications, and Windows updates all in one click using the Microsoft Store.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I find that people who come from the old days of linux will often respond "you have to use terminal", or "learn the operating system", or even balk at people saying you can just use the GUI Interface/Desktop Environments. And then when you get help from expirienced users you get allot of terminal commands, which makes people think "I can't use Linux without learning the terminal first". In actuality it is just easier to show a person a command and ask for the results than it is to walk a person through getting the same info otherwise.

"OK, which Desktop Environment are you using?".

"Desktop what?".

"Which version of OS did you download and install?".

"Cinnamon.".

"X or Wayland?".

"What's a Wayland?".

"OK, X. Is your system up to date and which kernel are you running?".

...and so on. It is faster to just help working in the terminal. The Desktop Environments are fairly far along and most that I have worked with you could get by completely in the Desktop and not touch the terminal.

I would suggest Linux Mint, but for now I would stick to the non latest version of 21.3 as they bit off ALLOT in 22 and while it works for allot of people there are driver bugs they inherited from Ubuntu and have not implemented the fix for yet and allot of other pains in the toukus so if you want a version with the minimum of troubleshooting and stable Desktop Environments I would stick to 21.3 (If I had any sense I would be switching back to it from 22 myself).

If you want another option it would be Ubuntu and its Different Desktop 'Spins' to see which you like the most. Some people prefer to start off on Fedora and I am told it has a good DE, or some people recommend PopOS which had its own spin on a DE but they have let development lag on it as they developed their Cosmic Desktop for the Wayland project (the project that is superseding the X.org project for making windows).

Which ever you choose, good luck. I am in the same boat and I am trying to learn what I can before it is too late.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

To me, Endless OS seems to be the best fit for you; install it once and you never ever have to give it a second glance for troubleshooting or whatsoever. It achieves this through using "a read-only root file system managed by OSTree with apps installed using Flatpak.". This translates to:

  • The most important system-related files being protected from change by yourself and others.
  • Ensurance that your base installation is exactly the same as the one tested and used by its developers. And thus an (in-)direct quality control and maintenance by the very people that work on it.
  • As the base system is not changing beyond what is provided by the devs, installation of applications is relegated to flatpaks (see Flathub for the App Store).
    • Flatpak is a packaging format that doesn't interact with the base system to install software; think of it like how applications are installed on your phone. With this, you can still install software you need without compromising changes to the base system.
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