this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
409 points (97.9% liked)

politics

19118 readers
2622 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Paywall removed: https://archive.is/mUb1H

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 126 points 4 months ago (2 children)

My one coworker, a former Trump supporter, asked me today "Are you still 100% positive Trump will lose? Please tell me he's going to lose." She was visibly worried. Actually sounded upset, and was practically begging me to tell her yes. Never seen her like that before...

This has become a very confusing time in our political history. I'm nervous, if not outright afraid, because I can't tell which way the scales are going to tip. We need everyone to do their duty as a citizen, now more than ever.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Yep.

I'm in a red state full of Trumpers.

It doesn't even feel like an election year. There's no signs or new bumper stickers like the last two. But they all still hate Biden.

A lot of people are just voting against the other candidate this year.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago

I hate to say it, but voting against the other guy has been going on a long time, and I think it has a lot to do with why we find ourselves in this situation. "Vote for me because I'm not the other guy" is one of the oldest political strategies there is, and Democrats have been using it for a long time; even going so far as to donate to the campaigns of the most extremist candidates in their race to set themselves up with an easy win.

However, as my boss when I was a teenager would say - and my grandfather decades before him - "I'm a Republican. I vote for the nominee." There's a core block of Republicans who don't care who the Republican candidate is. They're gonna vote for him regardless of his policies just because he's the Republican. He could be Trump, Biden, Putin, or Stalin himself, risen from the grave to destroy the specter of capitalism once and for all. And the Democrats have never accounted for these people voting against them rather than voting for a candidate they like, which has led to this slide further and further towards right-wing extremism as the craziest candidates get propped up by Democrats looking for an easy win - to the point that even the old Republicans have lost control of this core group of voters who became the MAGA cultists, and the party as a whole along with them.

It's unfortunate, but all we can do at this point is vote against the crazies and hope that the Republicans clean out their party of extremists. But I don't think we'll see that happen any time soon. The rot is rampant.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I was wondering about that. I'm in California, and there are basically no political signs this year. I figured it was because they thought we would forget whose signs were in their yards in 2016 and 2020

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Nope, they're pretty much over trump.

The danger is they vote against Biden.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

With the electoral college though, it's especially important to get people from states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Georgia to vote for Biden instead of Trump.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The wild part is that both sides think this, but for totally different reasons. The center all the way over to semi-Left we have in the US sees the danger Trump posses to democracy, his weaponization of the courts (even without being in power), and his disdain for the rule of law.

The Right (minus Republicans that aren't MAGA that I would put more center thanks to the shifted Overton window) think that the "radical Left" is trying to replace them with "brown people", and trying to make everyone "woke", and somehow make everyone a pedophile by having a drag queen read them a story.

The Right uses "FUD" to control their base, with only wanting power over people and having zero desire to actually govern (as seen with congress currently), and everyone else that is paying any attention is afraid of what that means for everyone in their lives that will be affected by this cult. And even once Trump is gone from this earth, it's going to take years of mental health crisis to try and bring these people back from a cult this large and powerful. This is the kind of thing that Scientology looks at just goes "sploosh".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Hari* Seldon on Foundations watch.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I want to first say thank you, this looks very interesting! But to help people of the future I want to point out that you have a typo in his name, Hari Seldon which was no doubt a thwarting by auto-correct.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Thank you kind sir. You'd be correct.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 4 months ago (14 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I'm going to but either party winning the election is not going to stop America's decline

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

That may be true, but one party is loaded with criminals actively trying to hasten said decline.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Sure, but note that these 80% are described as about equal between Republicans and Democrats. Meaning 80% of people are afraid the 'other side' is going to lead to catastrophe, but they don't agree on which side is the threat, and probably a fair share that believe that both of the likely "sides" will end in catastrophe.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 months ago (1 children)

One in five Americans enjoy the country sliding into chaos.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I haven't been stockpiling all these canned goods and pornography for nothing!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

In the after days, may I barter for a nice Sears catalog? Preferably spring edition?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

I can't commit. I will scour the wasteland for my sustenance

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Five out of five Americans ain’t seen nothing yet

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

American Politics: "hold my beer..."

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

5th American thinks they are Canadian

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

hop-skipping into chaos

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago

Yeah but who out of those five describe “chaos” as things like social policy, lgbtq rights, and those “damn illegals coming in to the country”?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (7 children)

I think American politics today can be broken down as follows:

There are three main groups in America today: revolutionaries (we'll call them progressives), reactionaries (we'll call them conservatives), and the supporters of the status quo (we'll call them centrists).

The centrists are people who are generally doing well, are generally happy and content, and therefore don't want things to change significantly. They might be willing to accept relatively minor changes, but only if the changes don't negatively impact them in any meaningful way.

Progressives are people who are generally unhappy and discontent. They don't feel that things are working for them, so they want to radically change things, in the hopes of making society more like their hypothetical or theoretical ideal.

Conservatives are generally a reaction to progressives. Like progressives, conservatives aren't entirely content with the status quo, but they generally blame progressives for any problems. They believe it was progressives who created the problems when they tried to make radical changes, and conservatives therefore think the best way to solve the problems is to roll back any of the changes and to just generally go back to a better, more stable, more traditional past.

Progressives hate the centrists, for their opposition to the radical changes they propose, changes that progressives view as absolutely necessary. Progressives feel that the centrists lack empathy, as they are unable to see, or don't care, that progressives are very unhappy and discontented, and may even be suffering.

The centrists see progressives as overly idealistic malcontents who are simply blind to how good they have it and to all the status quo has given them. The centrists also resent the progressives for asking them to make sacrifices. The centrists believe they earned their success, and there's no reason to punish them for it, and that progressives are just “sore losers.”

Conservatives absolutely hate progressives, with a murderous rage. They hate that progressives want to radically change things, and they hate that progressives reject tradition and established hierarchies/hegemony. conservatives are infuriated that progressives won't show deference to traditional authority, and even dare, in some cases, to call for the destruction of said authority.

Conservatives don't necessarily like the centrists either, but any problems they have with the centrists comes down to any willingness they may have to work with progressives. For instance, if the centrists are ever willing to listen to or compromise with progressives, conservatives view that as total capitulation to the progressives, and/or the status quo being completely co-opted or infiltrated by progressives.

Conservatives now believe that the status quo has been taken over by progressives, and thus they make no distinction between the centrists and progressives, viewing both as the enemy. Therefore, it has become necessary for the centrists to ally with progressives (as much as they might hate that thought) against conservatives. However, the alliance is restricted only to opposing conservatives, and does nothing to change the centrists’ general opposition to the aims and ambitions of progressives. For this reason, progressives are reluctant to form an alliance with the centrists, since they believe the centrists are asking for the progressives’ help without offering anything in return. The centrists argue that they don't have to offer anything to the progressives, and that the progressives should help the centrists because it is also in their interest to see the conservatives defeated.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Progressives are people who are generally unhappy and discontent. They don’t feel that things are working for them, so they want to radically change things, in the hopes of making society more like their hypothetical or theoretical ideal.

Things are working fine for me but I care about other people. I am progressive.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think this is a deeply flawed and simplistic categorization of Americans' political sentiment. "Progressives" capture a broad swathe of people with different concerns and intents, very many of whom are doing just fine but appreciate the myriad systemic issues that merit address. Keep in mind, Republicans have effectively turned being focused on the existential threat that is unchecked climate change into a "progressive" issue and part of their culture war.

Moreover, political spectrum positioning historically shifts only one step one way or another between generations (i.e., children are usually one step more centrist than their parents when they settle into a stable political outlook). What this means is that most people just don't give significant thought about their politics and their practical and lived impact on their lives. This isn't to say most people are stupid, but rather they are thoughtless and myopic. It also means that a very large portion are not reacting to anything-- they're just bumbling along like humans always have and it's the incidental cascade from flapping butterflies here and there that cause the population level swings and societal changes we ultimately see.

You are making the same mistake that economists (used to and some still do) make in that you are baking perfect rationality, at least along some axes, where it just does not exist. And trying to build any sort of model from such a flawed axiom is doomed.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

I think you are missing out on the fourth group of people too tired, too overwhelmed or simply too disenfranchised to care enough to actually do anything for any side... this group is by far the largest of them all

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Progressives are people who are generally unhappy and discontent. They don’t feel that things are working for them, so they want to radically change things, in the hopes of making society more like their hypothetical or theoretical ideal.

In so much as things are not working out for progressives, it’s because many of them are usually people with higher levels of compassion and empathy. I think you’re equating socioeconomic status with political alignment, which will lead to inaccurate conclusions.

On the flip side, there are many conservatives who are poor, trapped in abusive jobs or U.S. states, dying of one reason or another but will blame progressives for their problems because of the culture war bullshit/distraction tactic.

We’re all victims of unabated greed, it’s just that some of us have Stockholm syndrome or a delusional fantasy of one day becoming ~~an abuser~~ a captain of industry

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'll add to that as things are getting worse, fewer and fewer people are going to go to bat for the status quo, making the situation unsustainable. The status quo is what created these conditions in the first place, and if there isn't at least a reasonable pathway towards addressing the various crises and underlying problems, it should be considered a non-starter.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I definitely think the centrist middle is going to become more and more hollowed out as more people break from the middle into the progressive or conservative camps. That being said, while I don't think any of the three groups represents a majority of Americans, I do think centrists still have a plurality, though I think they will soon be overtaken by one of the other groups. Unfortunately, I think more centrists are likely to break conservative than progressive. I think more Americans are likely to have a negative reaction to the possibility of radical change than a positive one. But perhaps that depends on the changes being proposed. One thing I am very confident of is if the proposed changes are socialist, even if only in name, I think a majority of Americans will have a negative reaction to them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

You could practically swap conversations and progressives in this, depending on the audience.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

Hey look! Another poll! Let’s see what they want us to believe!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

four in five americans have eyes

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

That's great news. Chaos is good for ratings and that means more advertising dollars.

/s explicit if not implied.

Legit doesn't matter what side your on. The other side is destroying America and your guy is the savior. The outrage cycle won, guys. Now we're all outraged. What next?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

It is, fucking do something about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

And the fifth is a stern Trumpist and QAnon fetishist, and enjoys breaking the country.

load more comments
view more: next ›