this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 month ago (10 children)

You want the actual answer? Because the Democratic Party has spent the last decade torpedoing non-establishment candidates. They killed off other candidates even running in this primary, and shut down several primaries entirely. Why would we waste our time?

And let’s be honest, let’s say that now the DNC appoints a new candidate, like they legally can do, it’s not going to be an AOC or someone even slightly to the left like Warren. It’s going to be another neoliberal like Buttigeig who will continue to Biden’s legacy of absolute mediocrity and screwing over the American people in the name of “freedom”.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

This is 100% correct.

Small thing to add - we’re also in the midst of a devastating heat wave across most of the US at this moment. Taking to the streets isn’t exactly an accessible option right now, but anyone who has been remotely engaged in online discourse should be well aware of voters’ discontent with Biden and the status quo. They certainly won’t be discussing it on MSNBC however.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I mean, they packed university campuses across the country and then the riot police went in. What kind of goldfish memory is this?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago
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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The last time we filled the streets we wanted police reform and didn't get it.

The time before that it was to protest a war that happened anyway.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not only did we not get police reform, we got a cop as a democratic vice president.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Yes, top cop Kamala. And now they’re threatening to roll with her if Biden has to step down. We’re doomed.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Because that's not a thing and never has been? Find me any large scale protests in the history of the US where they were protesting a candidate prior to an election.

There's not a single liberal or leftist (a few paid shill podcasters notwithstanding) in the whole country saying "Joe Biden's brain is so soupy that Donald Trump would make a better president." We're saying Democrat leadership suppressed the primary to anoint an incumbent who's going to lose. Democracy is on the line, and we're running out of time to put our best foot forward. It'd be one thing if we were getting honest and reasonable arguments in response, but instead we're getting gaslit (Only the elites want Biden to step aside?) and being told "get in line or you're helping Trump somehow. " Meanwhile, Republicans are preparing to sue to keep Biden on the ballot in the event of a switch, because they know who they want to run against.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope he wins, since we're probably stuck with him on the ticket. Given that he's down 12 points from where he was in 2020 against Trump, where the swing states that gave Biden the election were only fractions of a percent in his favor, it's gonna take some kind of miracle. We don't have to be in this seemingly hopeless situation, but Biden's ego and stubbornness seem like they're gonna keep us here.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Historically protests are at the convention when the unpopular candidate is named.

Then the people who named the unpopular candidate blame the protests for the loss

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Honestly. The number of people just on this platform saying "nobody thinks biden should drop, you're wrong, you have no right to be upset with Biden's team, and anyone who says otherwise is a bot" is seriously making me wonder if that narrative itself is the one being pushed by bots to sow discord between us. Who honestly jumps directly to "bot or stupid, no other possible explanation" when they disagree with an opinion so clearly held by a substantial number of people with nuanced opinions.

Anyone paying attention would see that Biden, having won on razor margins in 2020, on promises of being a 1-term president, could not afford to lose ANY ground in democratic turnout. Every feeler they put out is coming back showing we have lost that ground substantially and Biden is utterly unable to campaign to gain it back. Anyone can be not Trump, not everyone can run an energetic campaign on their own merits, and that is overwhelmingly what motivates people to turn out to vote.

It's not a difficult connection to make and the assumption that bots would be the only ones to make an argument to replace Biden, after they ran a "primary" in which they hid Biden away from us and didn't let even anyone remotely viable run, is just such an uninformed and arrogant viewpoint to witness in such droves that I hardly believe it's real.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Because there aren't any other viable candidates.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (18 children)

I agree with you, and that's how you know it's just disinformation and dishonesty. Nobody ever has a serious name to replace Biden. You press them for the replacement candidate, and you'll get a ridiculous answer because they don't actually have a plan. They just want to knock Biden down.

Harris is already on the ticket. If she's the reason to vote, good news! Biden can step aside after he beats Trump and hand Harris the big chair. She can then run in 4 years as an incumbent (assuming she does a good job.) If she's not the dream candidate, then why aren't we talking about replacing her on the ticket? You want Whitmer or Newsom or Buttigieg, then put them on as the VP and let them run behind Biden.

You don't get away from Biden's baggage by having him step aaide. His record, his endorsements, his policies, those all come with the package. The only thing you shed is his age. If that's the only reason you're concerned about Biden, then it's not a serious concern.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

how is Biden the only person that can beat Trump? What left-leaning person would go "hmm, it's not Biden so I guess I'm voting Trump"?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

It's not that Biden is the only person who can beat Trump. Biden is the only person RUNNING who can beat Trump. There are plenty of people who could beat Trump, but until one of them says they want the job this entire thing is a nonstarter.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

the DNC kinda prevents legitimate alternatives from succeeding though. It doesn't have to be this way but the party keeps it like this, maintaining the incumbent as the only choice.

People want more options and they would be available if it was remotely possible to overcome the DNC's favoritism to Biden.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I 1000% agree with you. The DNC shouldn't be operating as an arm of the incumbent, that's precisely why we're in this position now. I just don't know how that changes when the DNC is staffed with people chosen by the incumbent, especially before November.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The level of political analysis in this thread is like armchair traffic engineers talking about how we could eliminate traffic by just opening up another lane.

Winning an election in our current system means running a 50 state strategy and getting more votes than your opponent. Almost everyone who votes is uninformed on most issues, and will vote for the person they like most. Some vote against the person they hate most. A full third of eligible voters did not vote in the last presidential election, and that was the highest voter turnout in 120 years.

To get someone to vote for you, you need three things in this order:

  1. Recognize your name
  2. Believe they know you well enough to see you in the job
  3. Be motivated to go out of their way to cast a ballot

That's it. All of the ads and speeches and interviews and debates are trying to accomplish those three objectives. That's why primaries are important, because it gives the candidates time to differentiate themselves and build a following of donors and volunteers.

An incumbent has a ridiculous advantage in that they have 1 and 2 completed. Everyone voting knows that Biden is the President, and they have seen him doing the job. Trump has also been President and done the job. So it just comes down to which of these two old, white shitbags can motivate enough voters to show up.

If the incumbent drops out, you are starting over at zero. The candidate must introduce themselves to the voters, and then convince them that they have the experience and gravitas to handle the job. The American voters are woefully inept at judging whether a person has the experience or gravitas, but we all believe we are good at it.

A lot of people are motivated to vote because they love Trump. A lot of people are motivated because they hate Trump. Biden might have a handful of supporters that are motivated by Biden, and there might be a few morons who hate Biden enough to vote for Trump. The real hurdle Biden needs to clear is getting people who are unenthusiastic about either candidate to show up.

So the question becomes, is there another candidate who is so energizing and charismatic that they can introduce themselves, demonstrate competence, and motivate the unenthused without alienating the already luke-warm supporters?

What does Harris get you? She's not going to change course on Israel. Youth? She's fairly unpopular among young voters. Women? Anyone who cares about women's rights is already voting against Trump. Minorities? See: Women. Plus, anyone who loves Harris is already going to be motivated to vote for Biden, because he's not likely to go the full four years.

If you don't like Harris, then who? All of the big names in the party have backed Biden and have said they aren't running. Are we going to nominate that Joe Shmoe primary challenger that couldn't even get on the ballot in half the states? He's been running for a year and I can't remember his name or tell you what his policies are.

All of these hypothetical scenarios about how the ticket would be better if the DNC wasn't corrupt, that's just bullshit. Our election system sucks, but we're not going to fix it by complaining about the team uniforms. You want to make it better? Run for office. Write your representatives. Donate and/or volunteer for a campaign. Vote out conservatives at every level of government. Talk politics with your friends and neighbors. These things will all help. Whinging about the DNC on Lemmy will not.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Yeah I was just agreeing with a specific point about how we intentionally give the incumbent even more of an advantage during the primaries. Nothing you said is exclusive to my comment. I know/agree with pretty much everything you said already. Sorry you had to write all that.

Run for office. Write your representatives. Donate and/or volunteer for a campaign. Vote out conservatives at every level of government. Talk politics with your friends and neighbors. These things will all help.

All great points. How about we both spread this message and you forgive me for posting my admittedly unproductive comment?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Nobody ever has a serious name to replace Biden.

Oh, they've moved on to indignation now and pretending they didn't spend the last few weeks disappearing after being asked for a name. But they still very rarely actually give one.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Theres a whole country of people, how hard is it to find one qualified candidate?!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Apparently, rather hard.

I doubt it is the qualification for the actual job that is the issue. Being willing to put one's family through that shit it tough.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (15 children)

There's also a very consistent and common shortlist that these people just pretend doesn't exist because the narrative line they're now following demands they pretend it doesn't.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

The oligarchy does not want an effective Democratic candidate

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

So, so many of us are going to vote for whoever the D is, no matter what. And Biden shit the bed, costing him those dumbass undecideds in the few states that will determine our collective future.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago

Because, as the sitting President, the only person who can make that decision is Biden. It literally does not matter what anyone else says or does.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I want to retire. I am sick of this country being run by workaholics. I want it to be run by people planning on not working themselves into the fucking grave, and expecting the rest of us to do so as well.

57 years is the oldest a candidate should be for a first-term presidency. 61 for a second term. If they still want to play politics, they can take a position in their local HOA.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I got work. Like 6 hours of meetings a day. With what energy would I use to 'go to the streets' to ask an old fuck who definitely can't hear me to please retire. I don't think he will hear me or care.

I'll still vote for him I guess. Better Biden than the career criminal maniac.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

*Career criminal maniac child rapist.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

Because it is largely disinformation and people are being paid to write articles on it or claim such behind closed doors but not publicly

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because in no case where they switched candidates in the process did they win an election.

None. It's certain defeat.

Now, if someone would tell these people trying to nullify the vote to kindly fuck off, that'd be great.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

Because most of the people elevating this narrative are right wing trolls and Russian trolls. Trump and Putin thrive on chaos and doubt. We are weaker as a country when we are fragmented and don't stand firmly against a common evil

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Wait a minute that seems like evidence the large majority of Democrats don't feel he 'must step aside!' No, that can't be it...maybe they're just stupid?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Because we don't want to get shot again by the cops the Democrats pretended to defend before saying they were needed to enforce order.

Plus working to death to afford to run air conditioning to not die in the apocalyptic climate change heat waves.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Nah. It's all good 👍. Just find a young candidate next time. Like 30 years old please. If it's another 70 year old white guy, I'm gonna be royally pissed for sure.

Right now I'm just annoyed so I'm not leaving my job just to get shot by the police as they are trained to do.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Minimum age to be president is 35, it would take an amendment to change that, and if we are going to burn the resources to get an amendment passed that's way down the list of things we need to fix.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Because it's 2024 and people on the fuckin streets are staring at their phones reading all the rage flooding their feeds.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Afraid it might backfire

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

It's a right wing battle cry to inspire division

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

There isn't any alternative stepping up. Who do we rally behind as the replacement? No one?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Because this isn't about a massive movement. This is about the roughly 100,000 people in battleground states who will decide the election.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Democrats don't give a fuck who the nominee is. We'll vote for whomever.

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