This is such a stupid take that I keep hearing. It's like saying, "Yes, the captain is steering us towards the iceberg, but the real problem is the iceberg." Well, we can't change the iceberg, but there's still time to change the captain.
That’s a great analogy, perfect, I might repeat it around if you don’t mind.
Yeah, go ahead.
Clearly you both just want to replace the captain with the iceberg. /s
THE PROBLEM IS FUCKING PROPAGANDA RUNNING RAMPANT!!
we would LITERALLY not have to deal with Trump if Newsmax, OANN, Fox, and their like weren't allowed to just lie and specifically aim to enrage the population. They hide behind the "opinion" designation of their show but act like it's news, or they admit it's opinion and claim it's opinion entirely based on "facts."
The reason Trump exists in the form that he does, with the support that he does is 110% at the feet of the fucking propaganda that gives him cover.
We can trace this back to Reagan nixing fair reporting laws.
Yup. Decades of conservative propaganda calling Democrats the enemies for no specific reason. Republicans have been brainwashed 100%. No sane human being would ever fucking vote for trump.
we would LITERALLY not have to deal with Trump if Newsmax, OANN, Fox, and their like weren’t allowed to just lie
Okay, but while we're rounding them up for the gulags, can we sweep through and pick out all the fuckwits at NYT, WaPo, WSJ, and The Economist that were insisting Joe Biden was our Last Best Hope To Save Democracy and Actually Whip Smart And Totally Ready To Lead? Hell, even NPR gets in on this shit, and its supposed to be the nice polite republican media rather than the frothing bomb-everyone-that-criticizes-Israel news outlet.
The reason Trump exists in the form that he does, with the support that he does is 110% at the feet of the fucking propaganda that gives him cover.
Trump is the direct result of Republican rhetoric outrunning its own policy. For the last 40 years, we've been told that immigration is the root of every problem in the country - from bloated budgets to housing crises to drug use to violent crime to COVID. And as things keep getting worse, and immigration keeps getting blamed, the only conclusion Americans are allowed to make is that they're not hard enough on migrants.
The celebrity candidacy of Trump was made possible by a news media fixated on the opulence of rich white guys, a conservative leadership that saw enormous profits in using migrant laborers to supplant labor unions, and an aging American public with a Pavlovian hatred of brown people. (And also, Hilary Clinton backing him in the GOP primary because she thought he'd be easy to beat).
But the real root of the problem is our national fixation on scapegoating. If Trump hadn't won in 2016, it could just as easily have been Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio, both of whom are perfectly happy with our home grown brand of fascist tendency. They're riding the same Hate Wave as Trump, he just did it better.
We wouldn't have to deal with trump had it not been for Clinton's Pied Piper strategy. That's the sole reason he's in politics.
He ran in 2000 or 2004 on the democratic ticket. Didn't get very far. Joked about having Oprah as his VP
Diaper Retard Hitler will kill the Western world as we know it, and the only other option we present to you is a man who is too old and senile to hand out werther's originals by himself.
Civilization is a lost cause.
Don't vote for the man, vote for the administration. The Trump administration will be evil incarnate and absolutely the end American democracy.
Right, the options in this election are:
If the election were between trump and another sack of shit, I would vote for the non-human looking sack of shit.
Biden may not be perfect, but he's way better than a facist sack of shit.
At this point it is the fault of the media that is keeping us divided, democrat hubris, and the bubble they live in thinking a man with dementia will bring out the parties very fickle voters to vote.
I think Brandon should fuck off. But i am 100% voting for him and it should be plain as day that while he is declining, he is nonetheless leagues superior to a fascist traitor.
Of course trump is an existential threat. Brandon is just a basic problem.
Brandon 2024. Fuck the republican traitor filth.
Brandon also filled his administration with a competent team of non-fascists and none of his relatives.
I hear ya and I guess Im doing the same.... But jesus fucking christ is it hard to imagine voting for that walking corpse after the debate. I'm wondering if it's somehow in the playbook that Democrats secretly want to lose. If we're not in a cult of personality it should be a no brainer to replace the candidate.
Well the orange fuck just became an even bigger problem thanks to his pocket-justices.
The single next thing Trump could do for our country is to drop dead of a heart attack 2 days before election day.
Best*, (I hope!?).
We are truly fucked. Thanks for letting the wrong guy run and dooming us a terrible outcome.
I agree. We are going to lose in November if we remain on this shuffling horse.
I will vote for Biden, but we will lose because we're not the people who needed to be convinced by that debate performance.
trump isn't the cause, he's a symptom.
trump might be the worst so far, but so has every single Republican president going back to Nixon.
When the Republican nominee is finally not trump, there is zero logical reason to expect that next person to not be even more crazy.
We can't keep reacting to them and treating every election like it's the last night at the Alamo.
If we want to stop fascism we need long term planning, planning for what we do if we win, plans for when shit goes wrong, plans for fucking every contingency. Plans for the next decades even after we think we finally beat fascism.
That's supposed to be the entire point of the national party. Long term strategy past any one candidate.
Instead they only care about raising as much money as humanely possible in the moment.
Shit is too real to just blindly vote blue no matter who, we need to start asking why the people running the party are even around. And if they're honestly more worried about making money that stopping fascism.
I think the Democrat party is a problem for pushing forward candidates that suck. There no way Trump wins in 2016 if he was going against somebody that was actually popular.
I am getting serious 2016 vibes this cycle. Biden should never have run a second time. And after that debate performance it feels like continuing with Biden is just as big of a mistake.
People like you underestimate how old and conservative most ppl who vote Dem are
Interesting headline - its disconnected from the content of the article. Most of it is about how broken the US electoral system is.
The important point is that an electoral and political system that was designed to protect from the "tyranny of the majority" has instead created a system perpetuating the tyranny of the minority.
Americans are indoctrinated to think theirs in the greatest country on earth from a very young age. But the political system is an absolute mess - the electoral college, the senate (which is totally skewed in favour of small states), the supreme court and politicised legal system, and the embedded 2 party system.
Trump isn't a threat to democracy. Democracy in the US has been dead for a long while now. It vaguely worked when there was a post war consensus but now it's completely log jammed. And nobody has a plan to fix it because they can't.
"The Republicans are the problem." (actually fair)
"The democrats are the problem."
"The [insert dice roll here] are the problem."
It's more complicated than one or another. So taking into account that all parties are currently "the problem" with Republicans being absolutely 100% on top of the fuck off list of naughty naysayers, I argue that YOU are also the problem, my dear voter.
So look, Lemmy is a leftist, and to some degree, progressive vacuum consumed by a desire to see better days. We have our trickle-in bright red-orange tarts to displace some sentiment, though mostly we all want similar things. The problem though is that we are all just too fucking opinionated on precisely where and how to do "it". Like fuck, guys, here's our narrative:
"Biden Harris is a good bad mediocre handicapped stable president old man who had a cold raspy voice that still answered, didn't answer, could have answered, more harder faster. His policies are good great bad awful, work, and we need to get him back into office, probably, maybe, someone else, not Trump.
You all collectively sounding like a certain riddle-giving Statue guarding a mad tyrants vault.
We fucking agree on so god. damned. much. But like fuck all if all of you aren't so hung up on the petty details and discourse within your own neigh disillusionment that you can't help but yell at one another over stupid bullshit.
Shut up and come together for fucking once. Because if there is one thing the right has that ANY group left of the bipartisan line doesn't have, it's the ability to hate each other and still act together when the stakes are the highest.
I agree with what you are saying I just don't think it's a problem to also say Democrats are the problem.
In a just world many GOP officials should have been thrown out of office for supporting Jan 6th and the fight to overturn the election and the supreme court should have been packed, and every day our democracy was slowly being destroyed, high up democrat officials stayed quiet instead of loudly proclaiming that the Republicans are destroying our country and democracy.
There are Democrats who don't fit into this mold but the problem is that if you ask republicans, to a man they can immediately recite the reasons to vote for trump, wall, southern border, china ... And they are dumb in falling for the lies but it's because the Republicans have been so effective at messaging and that the Democrats have failed at messaging that we are in this situation.
AOC has said she would draft up articles of impeachment for the supreme court justices involved in the decision and though she isn't a perfect politician, that's the kind of fire we need from democrats.
Regardless of all of this, in 2024 I will be voting for biden. We can't afford to give trump another chance at Kingship. Project 2025 might mean the end of US Democracy and so it is with great shame that we are all tied to the Democrats on a sinking boat.
Well that's certainly true, but Biden is a problem that really shouldn't exist. He is by far the lesser of two evils, but we still deserve better.
Biden and Trump are symptoms of the same problem, which is the political system. Without getting rid of the framework that effectively supports only 2 parties you're never going to get better candidates. The parties have too much power over the pick because what are the voters going to do, give their vote to the candidate they believe to be an even worse president?
Without getting rid of the framework
The framework has a lot of fat on it. Tens of thousands of bureaucrats and lobbyists and party cronies exist to facilitate the corporate-financed bipartisan system. To change the framework, you've got to fight with all the folks who profit off their positions in that framework.
The parties have too much power over the pick because what are the voters going to do
Parties have enormous amounts of money and manpower at their disposal. The money comes from business interests exchanging cash for political favors (a thing which SCOTUS now recognizes as perfectly legal). The labor comes from armies of paid workers, complemented by even larger seasonally sourced pools of local volunteers, who have been whipped up into a panic by mass media.
That's what gives party leadership the influence it commands. There are huge carrots for folks who play ball with the sitting administration and huge sticks waved over the heads of party-splitters and indie candidates.
Kind of hard to deal with the problem when the democrats insist on using the weakest tools to fight back.
AIPAC wants Trump and 14a3 is not on their policy platform
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