this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
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Lets assume we develop the capacity to create virtual worlds that are near indistinguishable from the real world. We hook you up into a machine and you now find yourself in what effectively is a paraller reality where you get to be the king of your own universe (if you so desire). Nothing is off limits - everything you've ever dreamt of is possible. You can be the only person there, you can populate it with unconscious AI that appears consciouss or you can have other people visit your world and you can visit theirs aswell as spend time in "public worlds" with millions of other real people.

Would you try it and do you think you'd prefer it over real world? Do you see it as a negative from individual perspective if significant part of the population basically spend their entire lives there?

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[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd jump in, but i would still need a crafted experience. I find designing my own sandbox to be a bit dull. Remember the last season of the Good Place? Turns out infinite wish fulfilment might not be that effective at making us happy. And it certainly won't help us to develop.

But if there are fun, designed experiences that are engaging and challenging to do inside this realm, sign me the fuck up.

Question though: how is time experienced on the inside? Because if our virtual experiences happen faster than real time we could get some real world advantages by studying and training in virtual.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

One issue with learning and training, is that you'll have the same limitations as now. You are still human, just connected to a machine and time cannot accelerate to learn faster.

However if we could move, change time to whatever place we want, create whatever we want. And still look real.

Then that would maybe make something very interesting for learning and training. It wouldn't be faster. But for example a teacher would be able to create a world where they can help the students learn better, with images, simulations, stories...

However that may also create some issues where it wouldn't be wise to recreate wars, death and other things which can be shocking for people. Because of that realism, it would be very hard to distinguish between a simulated war/death and a real one.

Tho it would maybe create a huge benefit for training for flying a plane for example. Cheap and no risks to break anything.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Probably if it's a San Junipero situation.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Read "Infinite" by Jeremy Robinson. It's a Sci-fi novel that explores a bit that idea.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Of course, but I'd still want to contribute to the real world. Luckily my contributions are non physical, so I could work from VR. And I'd have to log out occasionally to exercise.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We could and we should. "Real world" will deteriorate socially, enviromentally and architecturally if real VR becomes popular.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Not necessarily. We might have robots and AI keeping up the economy and human drudgery is no longer needed.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ready Player One Matrix And maybe others but I don't know.

It would be extremely hard to resist. Such tech may be expensive, tho it could still be owned by poorer people once it decreases in cost, as it would allow to escape their poorness.

Tho because mostly companies will do things like that, I mostly see something like in Ready Player One. Where you have a giant social network/game, where you can participate in plenty of different activities which can look like the real world, or not.

The Matrix version where you are in a world filled with "real people"/AI, where you have the same world but have some super powers, well not really sure. Do you really want to have powers, what to do with them?

It's also difficult to get a world like that. Social interactions are pretty much needed for most people. Even if these people don't see it directly, getting out, buying something, it's social interaction. If those AI people aren't good, the experience would most likely be mediocre because of the objective it implies (recreating a similar world but where you can do anything). Tho maybe if it is used as a game, maybe it could interest more people.

However it would enphasis the social distancing of many people and break many things. This is why I'd rather see it as like a social media/game universe.

Another issue in the question now is well, there is no such thing. So it's difficult to even know if it would be interesting or not. Would we be absorbed all day in it like people were in Ready Player One? Will companies try to control us? Make us buy things?

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This seems to be based off the premise that it's not indistinguishable from reality. I think the concept is that the AI are indistinguishable from real people. Is the interaction any less useful than with other people. Plus it says you can visit other "real" people if you want. Personally, I think some ethics come into play in regards to "anything goes" and rulling over AI entities. That's part of my issue with it. If they're indistinguishable from people are they not actually people then?

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Can ChatGPT be easily distinguished from a real person (if it doesn't say it's an AI)?

It is still possible, but not easy (also it is getting worse with time). Tho that doesn't make it a person. However we don't yet have the tech capable of making an entire person just in AI. But if we had it.

Your concerns may very well be a good point. But these AI humans, may not be considered persons if we suppose current tech enhanced.

However another moral issue is : let's say there is an AI human in there, and the player falls in love with it. Is the player marrying a person or an AI? From his perspective it could very well be a person. But from another ones perspective it would be an AI. How would other people need to treat such AI? As a person? Not as a person? How awkward would it be?

Then another one (if everything looks and feels as the real world) : AI humans in there wouldn't be considered as people. Would that mean that you can enslave them? Commit "crimes" (and other considered "bad" things) as they are not considered people? If they look and act like real people is it moral to do such thing?

[โ€“] taladar 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think there is a flaw in these kinds of arguments and that is the assumption that a perfect simulation would even be desirable. Why not enhance it with abilities like teleportation, third person views, searches and other HUD-like UI elements,...? I can tell from years of using Second Life that those don't ruin immersion nearly as much as VR-proponents seem to think.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

But I did not include such limitations

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think it would be great to try out things that are impossible in the real world without any risks. Not necessarily crazy things, but things that are just not available to me irl. Like designing stuff without any limits of ressources or money. That way we could improve the real world by testing things in the virtual.

It quickly turns into a philosophical question of what you really want to do in the real world and why. It doesn't make much sense to better your real world for things that could be easily done in the virtual. However, since your life even in the virtual world depends on your real survival, there would still be things to do.

Then there's also the thing that your virtual world would be limited to your own imagination. At some point, that will get boring even with virtual people around. It would still make sense to exchange ideas with actual people in order to expand your own virtual world.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would jump in head first. Anything that will make me run from this reality.

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