guns

Besides shootings... ? I think it's shootings.

Statistics generally show that people with guns in their house are much more likely to be fatally shot. Suicide is a big factor, as are domestic disputes. It seems that generally, there are points in many people's lives of extreme emotional anguish or rage, and if they have access to a firearm at that point they will use it, with deadly consequences. On the other side of the equation, successfully preventing harm with a firearm is comparatively more rare. In other words, owning guns causes more harm than it prevents.

At a societal level the same picture more or less bears out: the more guns available in a community, the higher the incidence rates of gun violence. This is true independent of crime levels, income, or demographics.

It therefore seems desirable to attempt to reduce the number of guns in private ownership. For the United States, that's quite a complicated task, and I don't see any realistic path to a gun-free society. Especially not with ~50% of the country opposed to such a goal. Probably the first step would have to be to increase public support for gun control, otherwise all efforts are futile.

With a knife (or other manual weapon) you have to be trained, lucky or prepared to kill even a single person, with a gun any person can shoot a whole school. It's too much power for some people. Plus you add range to weapons, making it even more deadly and unpredictable (collateral damage, crossfire, etc).

If you set those cons against the pros of "it's fun to sometimes target practice" then it's clear the better option is to ban them, like most countries do. Most people aren't against the actual mechanical contraption known as guns, they're against the fear a shooting can happen to them, their loved ones, or other innocents.

And in terms of protecting yourself from people who do have guns: guess what, in countries where guns are banned 99% of the bad guys also don't have them.

If we are being honest, for most people, it's emotion over anything else. There are plenty of statistics looking at gun ownership rates and crime and suicide. I don't think many people would disagree with the sentiment that society would be better off if guns had never been invented.

Disagreements arise on two main points, I think. The first is whether or not the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, on guns. There are allegedly 300 million guns in the US. I have no clue if that's accurate, but personally, I think only very invasive government action could measurably reduce gun ownership rates. If the average gun owner owns, for example, 3 guns, passing laws or somehow getting them down to 2 guns doesn't actually change ownership rates. Personally, I don't know anyone who has gone from being a gun owner to not being a gun owner. With the rise in technology like 3d printing and a general rise in home manufacturing capability, the ability to make your own guns is only going to get easier. Automatic rifles were manufactured before widespread belief in the germ theory disease; they aren't high technology. I think that is something that countries without legal gun ownership are going to have to reckon with in the not so distant future.

The second point is whether the right to own guns is worth the harm they cause. As a society, we put up with a bunch of things that do great harm. Cigarettes are a prime example; they kill 15 times more Americans than cars do. Auto manufacturers have more or less forced Americans to buy cars to survive, so we put up with those deaths, but cigarettes arguably provide less "benefit" than guns. Despite this, we've basically decided it's worth allowing tobacco sales. Most people who own guns see the downsides, but think that they are outweighed by the benefits. Many non-owners disagree. This is a philosophical question, so there is not a correct answer.

There's also a class component to this, I believe. For many working class Americans, guns are the only appreciating asset they own. Many working class Americans also see gun ownership as a thumb in the eye of the wealthy; it's seen as one of few things that give power to the working class that they can hold over the wealthy. This is complicated by the fact that politics around gun control are completely flopped around in this country. Gun control is a conservative, right-wing, authoritarian action. Private ownership of firearms by the working class is left wing. Despite this, the political parties in America, who are both right wing, have flopped around on this issue. Your average working class republican voter would not believe that their gun ownership is left-wing solidarity, but it is.

Lastly, the reason I say that it's all based on emotion is that every time you hear someone say "common sense gun control", they are usually making their point on vibes, not evidence. Very little crime in the US is done with "assault weapons", and no crime is done with assault rifles, yet these categories draw the most concern. There are laws aimed at all sorts of cosmetic features. Some laws have even targeted safety features. Suppressors are seen as a necessary courtesy in some countries, but in America, they are difficult or impossible to get.

Because when the constitution was written there were 4 million "Americans" there are now 331 million.

When the constitution was written, it took 30 seconds to reload a single shot musket that had a maximum effective range of 100 yards. An AR15 can dump a 30 round magazine as fast as you can pull the trigger, be reloaded in 3 seconds, can hit targets out as far as someone can realistically see.

The problem with the rights is that they no longer function as intended. When they were written 20 civilian men with muskets was not significantly less dangerous than 20 soldiers with muskets, the idea that the people could stand up to a tyranical government was sound. Its not anymore. I dont care how well organised your anti-govt militia is the ATF or FBI could fuck you up without much trouble if you wanted to try them.

I say this as someone who thinks going shooting is enormously fun, I love the engineering, science and talent involved in it as a pursuit. But those "rights" mean mass shootings of innocent people dont even make the mainstream news half the time.

To preface, I understand it's part of the US Constitution so I know it'll never go away completely.

I'm not a fan of citizens being able to own a tool whose sole purpose is to kill. It's marketed as defense, but the underlying reason is because a gun is a tool with the power to kill. Guns have become so small and portable that an individual can conceal one and can end people's lives at will. I'm not comfortable with that power going unchecked.

I also believe 2A's original intent is not feasible today. A small group of people with muskets cannot overthrow an oppressive state or local government.

I understand the sub this is in, but just wanted to offer my sincere 2¢

Besides shootings? You’re kidding right? That’s like asking “why don’t people like cancer? (Except for the chemo and death part)”

The rest of the world is completely fine without Guns for Everyone™. With that said though it's kinda too late for the US to reign in on gun availability because there's already a shitton of guns everywhere so only law abiding people would turn in their guns. (talking out of my ass but it makes sense to me)

1. Violent crime. Guns are used for crime a lot. So much so that when you weigh their criminal uses against their criminal uses, it can be easy to decide they aren't worth it on the macro scale.

2. Suicide. People who attempt suicide via jumping or something similar very often realize what they've done and bounce back. You can't do that if you've shot yourself in the head. While you'd think a suicide is a suicide, a less lethal method of suicide is better for society as a whole, because survivors often get their shit together.

3. Crazy people. Especially those of us who live in cities encounter unhinged people who just start shit for any or no reason. We want the stakes to be lower, so that I can tell the Karen screaming racial epithets at my neighbor in the middle of the night to go the fuck home and let me sleep, without worrying they're going to try and murder me.

4. Accidents happen. Much like "responsible drivers", " responsible gun owners" are less common than you think, and everyone thinks they are one. This is why institutions usually insist on things like mag safeties, that private owners detest. It's because statistically, a good number of people are just stupid sometimes.

5. People are literally just scared of them. They're dangerous.

They don't consider it a right.

Seriously, that's what it comes down to. You either believe that the right to keep and bear arms is a human right, or you don't. A right can not, and should not, be restricted.

But who decides what is and isn't a right? Well, in the case of the U.S., it was written into the primary source of law for the country not long after that source was put into action.

Anything since then is a series of arguments about what that document "means". So far, the argument that the right to keep and bear arms being a human right rather than a right only of the state has been upheld. That's called the individual mandate iirc, though there may be other terminology in play.

Now, I'm not getting into a debate here, I despise rehashing the same bullshit over and over again. There's a shit ton of good arguments and bad arguments made by people on the two main sides of the issue (and there are actually more than two sides, but the loudest voices end up drowning out others), so you can find those if you really want.

Being real, most of the hot button issues come down to a group of people believing that something is a right, and others believing it isn't. Abortion? It's about the right to body autonomy vs the belief that body autonomy is not a human right that is inviolable. There is a section of those that don't believe it is a right that believe so because they also believe that the little thing inside has rights that trump the rights of the parent; but there are those that aren't part of that section that still don't believe it's a right and thus can be regulated accordingly.

I obviously do consider firearms to be essential to a human right, that being the right to defense, what with the whole comment starting with they. That being said, as soon as firearms cease to exist entirely, and/or everyone, including every police force and armed services are disarmed before citizens, I'd be willing to concede that firearms are no longer essential to that right. But the right to arms is a human right, regardless of what form of arms exist. If we went back to archery and swords, those would be the weapons essential to that core right. Which, to me, is the important part, that core right rather than the form that right takes.

Fwiw, idgaf about lib vs con bullshit. I'm so far left that the typical US liberal thinks I'm dangerous. I'm not far left, but I'm a damn sight further left than the usual people involved in this issue.

Honestly, I think it's mostly fear. There are practical reasons to own a gun and be familiar with its use and maintenance, but there are people who have varying levels of fear of weapons on a spectrum from simple discomfort to full on hoplophobia. The same people seem to be generally uncomfortable with being responsible for their own safety, and prefer to live in areas where government agencies are at hand to deal with any kinds of emergencies they may have.

It's the "don't do this, get an adult" mentality extending into adulthood. Once you're an adult, the next level of authority to shunt personal responsibility onto is the government.