this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2024
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Best practice for this kind intersection? (see comment) (lemmy.ca)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Hey guys. I'm curious about this type of scenario, because I see two ways of approaching it and neither seems like the best way.

Legend for the photo: MUP = multiuse path; SW = sidewalk; BL = bike lane (sharrows, but it turns to a bike lane).

Assuming you were on the MUP going north, and wanted to turn onto the bike lane heading west.

What's the best/safest/legal way to do this?

A. Use the crosswalk (not a crossride, so you'd need to get off your bike and walk) and position yourself on the lane facing west?

B. Turn from the MUP straight into the bike lane on a green? This would mean going across two lanes.

C. Position on the left turn lane of the road, and make the left turn from that lane? Cars turning right don't make this easy or safe.

For context, there is a bus route going south to north, and this particular road has a lot of speeders. What I'd think would be safe, usually isn't.

If this were an intersection with cyclists in mind, it would have a large green box for cyclists to move into to make the turn safely. In that case, I'd think C would be the most ideal. But without that, what's the next best?

I tend to choose A at this particular intersection, but that's nearly gotten me run over by people turning left from the north side.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Thank you for all the input, guys. I will stick with "A" (which is a Copenhagen left turn), and will suggest to my city to add a proper green painted bike box at this intersection for cyclists to safely make these turns.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I don't like mixing with the cars so anything that is not that. I'd probably wait to reach the end of MUP and take whichever green light is on. Either the left or the front crosswalk. And then wait on the opposite side for the other green light.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

That's what I do, unless there's no traffic. But in most cases A is dangerous thanks to people turning either left or right. Cars approaching the stop from the east side also have a habit of going way past that painted line and into the crosswalk. I've thrown my hands up at so many people while trying to walk across that section.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That cross section layout reminds me of a Tom Scott video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeeTvitvFU

2 cyclists dead in 10 years before, but now the one dangerous cross section has reportedly been turned into 2 safer "t-sections" (if that's a thing).

A full explanation as to why accidents happen there, from before the changed cross-section layout, but on a shitty website unfortunately: https://singletrackworld.com/2018/01/collision-course-why-this-type-of-road-junction-will-keep-killing-cyclists/

Edit: unlike the cross section of the op, the Isley cross-section had less traffic and no stoplights, so there was nothing that forced traffic to come to a full stop before crossing, which made the oblique angles that much more dangerous.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Another option, depending on how busy the road is. Go straight across on green, bang a u-turn when it's safe, then turn right. Or hang a right at the light, u-turn, and go straight across.

Neither should be necessary, but there's an intersection I sometimes go through with a similar setup (albeit without bike lanes, just wide shoulders). If traffic is clear coming north, I get in the left turn lane and wait there, but if not, I'll go right and turn around. The other problem at my intersection is that the left turn is triggered and a bike won't do it, so that's another consideration.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know the actual best practice, but my 2 Canadian cents:

For complex intersections I personally cross on foot both ways. I'm not a particularly experienced street cyclist so whenever I come to an intersection that's not well designed for cyclists I tend to take the safest option.

Depending on the speed limits and personal abilities I think we should be able to take the intersection as a street vehicle but in my neck of the woods people don't know what the heck to do with a cyclist and can make some poor decisions.

Better to be slow than flattened by a lifted pickup that didn't even see you lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

This is a Canadian intersection, unfortunately.

The MUP is great. Getting to it, or off of it, is not so great. LOL

Lots of trucks and buses along that stretch of road (north to south) and it turns into 1 lane each way, with no bike lane or shoulder, once you cross that intersection.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Legality for your area aside, what I'd do is on a green bike across the cross walk then position myself in the north east corner, in the bike lane on the east side of the intersection if it's safe, at the pedestrian waiting area if not, then bike across the roadway into the westbound bikelane when east-west traffic may proceed.

No matter what, always remember to look behind you to your left to make sure no one is trying to overtake and turn right when you are about to cross an intersection.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

I normally do C, or A if it feels too dangerous to join traffic.

[–] snota 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What's the speed of the road? I would personally join the road earlier so that I can manoeuvre across with the traffic, but if the road is super fast I'd probably pick A. That is unless right on red is permitted, then I'm not sure.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

What’s the speed of the road?

Posted 50km/h, so 80km/h according to drivers. And yes, I've clocked people on my bike radar going 80km/h.

I would personally join the road earlier so that I can manoeuvre across with the traffic

Not possible on this MUP, at least not safely. But I have done that on other MUPs that have entrances/exits at some part of the curb.

but if the road is super fast I’d probably pick A. That is unless right on red is permitted, then I’m not sure.

Right on red is permitted, so when I choose A (often), I'm either in danger by people turning right or those turning left ahead of me.

This intersection is a great example of a city appearing to be doing right by cyclists, but it only makes things more dangerous.

If I wasn't turning and going straight (a more common scenario for me), then I'd have to merge with speeding traffic at the intersection, which is not safe unless you're very confident on a bike. Going on the sidewalk puts you in conflict with the pedestrians at or walking to the bus stop just after the lights.

It's a roll of the dice!

[–] Grass 2 points 9 months ago

I usually go with c. There is one particular intersection where pressing the pedestrian cross button causes an all cars red all crossings walk (only 3 though) phase that I abuse to do b, but it's not actually allowed. It's just a really dangerous street and that's the only way to not get killed by clueless drivers that don't know hand signals.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Cross to top-right corner, wait for light to turn green in the left-facing direction. That is the safest, and also correct, way of doing it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I would cross the EW street on the MUP 90% of the way and put myself at the front of the pack on the east side of the cross street and wait for a green. Personally preference, not saying it's the correct way to do it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

If the cars are driving fast I'd just use the crosswalks but if it's something like 25 mph then I'd just use the lane to turn left.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I would go with C, taking complete control of the right lane (ride about 2/3 to the left of the lane), using hand signals to make it clear where I'm going. If it's not safe, I'll fall back to A.

B is always unsafe and illegal in my area. A and C are both legal in my area, so I'll pick whatever is safer at the time depending on traffic. I've done both in my area, which has roads posted at 35mph and 45mph (so 60-70kph), and people often go 50-60mph (80-100kph). It's scary the first few times, but I can usually time it for either a red light or a lull in traffic.

A is always going to be safe if you wait for the light to change, it's just time consuming. So I usually try to make C work.