this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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232
‘Extraordinary’: Biden administration staffers’ growing dissent against Gaza policy (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 100 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I'm probably just speaking for myself, but this particular dynamic actually makes me feel better about supporting Biden. I think Joe Biden himself is a contemptible dumbass whose policy imagination is stuck in a past that never even actually existed, but I think he's had to surround himself with a lot of staffers in their 20s 30s and 40s who aren't so terminally dense on things like Israel and student loans and reproductive healthcare and labor unions, and they can actually make him evolve and be a little bit less of a boomer than he otherwise would be. Hopefully they're able to keep the pressure up.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 11 months ago (21 children)

Exactly, Trunp would be purging these people from his administration, and wouldn't be holding Israel back at all, if anything Trump might send troops in or order some strikes himself just to feel like he's partipating in the slaughter.

Biden has shown that he's movable on issues whereas Trump would just take a sharpie to those issues, or worse, far worse.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't think he's a dumbass, I think he's a man in his 80s that hasn't/can't adapt to the times and needs more convincing than should be necessary. I honestly think his heart is in the right place, but he's just too damn old.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I honestly think his heart is in the right place, but he’s just too damn old.

There's no "right place" for a heart that supports genocide to be.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And yet, he's still getting my vote over Trump.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I bitterly resent those who placed me in a situation where my choices are "genocide" and "more genocide."

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad 2 points 10 months ago

Yeah m, and the worst of them have the audacity to be moral about it too.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Here's the annoying thing about our system: so what? If you stop supporting Biden, and trump gets re-elected, congrats, you now have an extreme Isreal supporter in office who would give nukes to Isreal. By being fed up with the current administration, you would have shot your own cause by withdrawing.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Deeper than the system, unfortunately. A supermajority of Americans are still extremely pro-Israel. Some for batshit insane religious reasons, others for reasons of ignorance. A few out of pure malice, one presumes.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Americans are pro-Israel because, for the past 75 years, we've been taught and told that all the Arabs and/or Muslims want to destroy Israel and we are the only country that can prevent that from happening.

For the majority of Americans, it is not religion or ignorance, it is simply political dogma.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

America wasn't particularly friendly towards Israel until the 70s, though.

And to be fair, much of the Arab world has wanted to destroy Israel.

We have little sway in that matter, though. Israel survived before we lent them assistance, and they were much worse off back then, and their enemies much more determined.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Good! The let’s stop selling them weapons, withdraw our carriers, and let them deal with the consequences of their actions on their own.

It is really fucking easy to do what you want, to be ho you want, with no repercussions when you have the worlds strongest military backing you.

The little fuckers wouldn’t have enough balls to do what they have been doing without our backing.

For fucks sake, they are so scared and cowardly that they are shooting innocent hostages, with their shirts off, hands up and a white flag in them.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Older Americans inherited the post WW2 mentality to support Israel. And they couldn't say anything critical for fear of being called anti-Semitic.

Younger Americans don't have this and laugh at the attempts to call criticism anti-Semitic. (The exception are religious people who support Israel because Bible something.)

It's a generational thing. That's why support for Israel is falling.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Biden is going to hand the 2024 election to Trump on a golden platter if he doesn't change course, even though everyone who isn't braindead knows Trump would be doing exactly the same.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

everyone who isn’t braindead

So a significant minority of voters

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don’t even know if I would say significant anymore, we’re gold fish in this country

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago

It's almost like we've undermined our public education system, built an economy that keeps most of us pretty close to survival mode most of the time, and we're constantly deluged with commerical and political advertisements that are designed to manipulate and mislead us or something

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately it's extremely geographic. We're pretty singular, but which "single thing" you get varies tremendously depending on where you are.

If you live in San Fran, "everyone" is a certain way. If you live in the rural heartland, "everyone" is the opposite.

On top of that, the number of people that can and are willing to speak the language of both sides is vanishingly small, due to the rhetoric and style of one side being extremely distasteful to the other.

I think ranked choice voting is probably our best, most realistic shot forward, by reducing the importance of the hard liners in the primaries.

[–] Shiggles 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The problem is it isn’t “both sides” when neither side really represents, I hope, most people. Ten years ago “republican” didn’t really have to imply mouth breathing fox news fanatic, and “democrat” continues more and more to mean “everybody that would be considered left in a european country but also the moderate right that don’t want to gas immigrants”. Any “side” has several if not dozens of wildly different and often barely compatible ideologies, thanks to our two party system.

To speak to a republican you have to simultaneously be prepared for them to casually support some horrific extremist idea, just be a sexist and/or racist insecure twat, or to just want less of their money going to government programs they don’t agree with.

Ranked choice voting, or frankly any voting style besides first past the post is the only way to fix that.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Trump would be trying to send troops. Both to Israel and Russia. I’m convinced of it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The Israel situation won't swing the vote. Most people support Israel blindly or don't care enough to be knowledgeable.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A couple of recent polls asked "What is the most important issue to you?".

About 30-35% said "the economy". Only 1-2% said "Israel/Gaza".

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Why would anyone expect it to be much higher than that? People are selfish and that's not entirely unreasonable when it comes to politics. It makes no sense for a foreign policy position to be the determining factor when deciding who to vote for, especially when we have so many problems here at home.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't reduce it to a binary. I think there's a pretty good chunk of the population who are anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian, but aren't reachable as swing voters. They're to the left of the current Democratic Party and might vote begrudgingly for Biden, but wouldn't vote for Trump under any circumstances.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Anti-Israel, pro-Jewish, and pro-civilian Palestinians here! I will vote begrudgingly toward Biden, but will vote for candidates that do not support unconditional support toward Israel and they have naunced opinions while still supporting Jewish people and Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Young voters are significantly impacted by this issue and they carry a lot of momentum. I think the people saying that this won't sway the vote are really discounting how important that momentum is.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (17 children)

This is great and all, but it doesn't mean too much if Biden doesn't actually care to correct course. There have been plenty of protests already showing the current policy is increasingly opposed by significant sections of the population, yet they're only making the most token efforts at any sort of real change in their stance towards Israel. If tens of thousands of people turning out for protests on the matter don't get it through the heads of Biden and other Democrats that this stance is untenable, I don't see why we should expect he'll suddenly start listening for a few staffers sending a stern letter.

In all likelihood, they'll hold the line on this, then when Democrats lose the next elections, they'll blame it on racists, antisemites, more leftist candidates spoiling their chances, or literally anything but doing some reflection and realizing some of their long-held positions are now deeply unpopular with a significant portion of their voter base.

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[–] iterable 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

At minimum the US could be a shield and help. Bring food and medical supplies as well as lifting out critically injured. You would also think if the US military was in there Israel would not be so reckless.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Israel doesn't give a shit. They've domed American citizens in the past for the crime of being in Gaza. What's a few more?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Domed?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Shot in the head

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure they're all Russian children who don't know how government works engaging in astroturfing because they want Trump to win.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

10/10

no notes

[–] mindbleach 4 points 11 months ago

I do not appreciate headlines that begin by telling you how to feel about it.

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