this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023

218 points (91.3% liked)

World News

38921 readers

2297 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

218

Israel’s military campaign in Gaza seen as among the most destructive in recent history, experts say (apnews.com)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

34 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 36 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Kissinger passed his dark arts to Netanyahu on his way to hell.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

This made me chuckle

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Misleading post title: altered the original to remove the word "recent"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Here is the archived version before they edited the headline.

https://web.archive.org/web/20231222012633/https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488c511f83c85baea22458472a796

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II.

But from blast fragments found on-site and analyses of strike footage, experts are confident that the vast majority of bombs dropped on the besieged enclave are U.S.-made.

Israel vows to press ahead, saying it wants to destroy Hamas’ military capabilities following the militant group’s Oct. 7 cross-border rampage that triggered the war, in which it killed 1,200 people and took 240 others hostage.

Israel’s offensive has destroyed over two-thirds of all structures in northern Gaza and a quarter of buildings in the southern area of Khan Younis, according to an analysis of Copernicus Sentinel-1 satellite data by Corey Scher of the CUNY Graduate Center and Jamon Van Den Hoek of Oregon State University, experts in mapping damage during wartime.

Several experts pointed to two photos posted to social media by the Israeli Air Force at the start of the war showing fighter jets stocked with unguided bombs.

The level of destruction is so high because “Hamas is very entrenched within the civilian population,” said Efraim Inbar, head of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security, a think tank.

The original article contains 1,093 words, the summary contains 212 words. Saved 81%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[+] [email protected] -19 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I very doubt it even comes close to the destruction of WWII.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Proportionally?

Germany lost about 6 million people out of a population of 70 million, so something to the tune of 8.5% of the population over the course of six years.

In the current Gaza campaign, we're coming up on 20,000 out of a population of 2 million, so something to the tune of 1% over the course of three months. Extended to the six years of WW2, that would be 41% of the population.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Factor in non-combatant casualties, and it will be even more disproportionate.

Yeah, there were a lot of civilian deaths in ww2. But they largely at least tried to minimize the non-military casualties. That isn't even a factor for IDF

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You think the entire populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military?

Also, entire cities in Southern Germany were entirely wiped out. Munich was re-built from the ground up.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I mean, even taking the IDF's numbers, proportionally, the IDF has killed far more civilians than the Allies in WW2. The IDF's estimate is that they've been killing 50% civilians and 50% combatants, while in WW2 the Western Allied count was about 10% civilians in Europe, and 33% civilians in Japan. However, the wars being fought are very different, so I find that a less compelling comparison than the sheer level of destruction leveled in such a short period of time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Don't forget the fire bombing of Tokyo, I think they killed around 100K civilians in a city where most of the houses were made of wood and paper.

Around 100K casualties in this bombing only and over 1M became homeless. That's next level evil along with the atomic bombs for sure. And I don't find any justification for any of those bombings.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

In Tokyo it's because the Japanese didn't have conventional factories; the people would make weapons and other things for the army in their homes, so Tokyo was basically a giant military factory. Of course whether that justifies the fire bombing is another story, but yeah that's the reason.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, there were a lot of civilian deaths in ww2. But they largely at least tried to minimize the non-military casualties

I feel obligated to point out that the Brits in Europe and the Americans over Japan engaged in deliberate terror bombing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, there are no good guys in war... Just different levels of crimes and justification from the obscene, to the grey.

The Allies were responding to aggressors that had invaded and "terror bombed" dozens of countries for years, killing millions of civilians, while maintaining extremely high domestic support throughout... Doesn't make terror bombing their civilians right, but it was more justifiable in context than anything the invaders did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Oh, yeah, I'm not at all questioning that the Allies were the right side. Only that we definitely attempted to deliberately inflict civilian casualties in Europe and in Japan, despite the US realizing that terror bombing was ineffective and quarreling with the British over its use in Europe, while still switching to it in Japan after strategic bombing campaigns were less effective than hoped.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You'll probably never know how many of those deaths were combatants. Don't forget that Hamas does recruit children as soon as they're old enough to hold up a gun and pull the trigger.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Hamas doesn't recruit Hamas members.

Israel recruits Hamas members.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, the child military camps and "how to kill a jew" lessons are run by Israelis.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Such a warped view.

If a country killed everyone you ever cared for, you lost your family, friends and home. You also nearly died and can’t go anywhere else because everything is blocked off.

You’ll feel like, you are already death. The only thing there will be in your heart is hatred and seeking revenge.

The more deaths Israel is making of Palestinians the more Hamas members they’re making.

That is due to Israel bombing everything and before claiming “but Hamas 7 October” let’s also go back to 1948 where it all started.

About 750 000 Palestinians were removed out of Palestinian land. Lots were killed. Hamas was only created in 1987 to fight against the occupation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

That is due to Israel bombing everything and before claiming “but Hamas 7 October” let’s also go back to 1948 where it all started.

Yes, 1948 when the surrounding Arab countries attacked the fledgling country of Israel. Jordan in particular displaced many people promising them they can return to their lands, then never fulfilling that promise. It was the start of lots of attempts to destroy this new country and murder all the Jews within it.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago

Scale-wise not perhaps, but on percentage of destroyed buildings in a particular (small) area it's right up there I think.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

Given that more than 80% of people have been displaced and in 2 and a half months almost 1% of the population died, pretty sure it's beyond it already, proportionally speaking.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It shouldn't be a race to be honest, but I get your point, the article is quite vague on why it thinks it's "one of the most destructive military campaigns in history".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

I mean is it? It states its basis pretty clearly.

[+] [email protected] -20 points 10 months ago (4 children)

riiight......

now I believe everyone can make a mental note of apnews obvious bias.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

You realize AP News is also a first information provider for the largest news networks like NBC, ABC, CNN, and even Fox?

Pretty much all of them use AP as the primary source of the latest information because of how definitively accurate and non biased they have been and currently are.

The Associated Press (AP)[4] is an American not-for-profit news agency headquartered in New York City. Founded in 1846, it operates as a cooperative, unincorporated association, and produces news reports that are distributed to its members, major U.S. daily newspapers and radio and television broadcasters. Since the award was established in 1917, the AP has earned 58 Pulitzer Prizes, including 35 for photography. The AP is also known for its widely used AP Stylebook, its AP polls tracking NCAA sports, and its election polls and results during US elections.

By 2016, news collected by the AP was published and republished by more than 1,300 newspapers and broadcasters.[5] The AP operates 248 news bureaus in 99 countries, and publishes in English, Spanish, and Arabic.[6] It also operates the AP Radio Network, which provides twice hourly newscasts and daily sportscasts for broadcast and satellite radio and television stations. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributing members of the cooperative. As part of their cooperative agreement with the AP, most member news organizations grant automatic permission for the AP to distribute their local news reports.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Honestly you're kind of hilarious. Like seriously? AP news has an obvious bias against Israel out of all places?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What's the subtext I'm missing?

[–] gravitas_deficiency -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The only reveal you’re doing here is that of your own bigotry.