A community for discussions and news about the Dune universe created by Frank Herbert; including books, movies, TV shows, and video games.
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I love the noise it makes and how it manages to look like a helicopter and biology inspired. And the wing folded dive to get to the spice harvester is just fantastic.
Both visual and sound design is superb, which is expected from Villeneuve. Made a choice not to watch the third trailer or read anything else about part 2, the first two trailers were enough without "spoiling" too much.
The reason nature has no rotation is because you can't connect nerves, blood etc. So making something that flaps up and down because nature does it, where rotation is far simpler and more efficient, is odd.
For this reason I found them somewhat absurd to look at. From the slow and sluggish start up to the suddenly physics defying power they got out of them.
I get what you are saying but I think you can also just decide it is magic and in that universe physics works like that. I don’t think it matters whether it is efficient or makes sense, getting lost in that I think is to miss the point of how much incredible power came from selling spice that you could build any kind of military vehicle you wanted to. From the perspective of a normal passenger plane like a Cessna, a fighter jet is an absolutely horrendously wasteful machine dumping massive amounts of energy out for no reason (I.e. when just transporting someone). That is what the ornithopter represents right? That absurdity you mention I think is a purposeful attempt to make you FEEL how much energy is being forced out by this machine and how much an empire must exist to sustain that.
Of course we can do that. Suspension of disbelief, no problem. I still find them odd because they do not seem to follow one physic reality but instead different ones at different times.
Most of the problems with an ornithopter are the difficulties of engineering rather than concept, which I think it's safe to say a society as far in the future as Dune's may well have sufficiently solved. Considering how brutal the conditions of the planet are - sand is horrible to any and all mechanical workings - and how there's only really one safe place to land, the fact that the ornithopters can effectively glide or even just keep flying if either of its two propulsion mechanisms fails actually offers a really good safety margin for that environment specifically.
I mean, obviously they were chosen first and foremost because it's a cool visual. But within the context they make some sense.
they were chosen first and foremost because it's a cool visual
They used ornithopters in the books (though I don't think the specifics of the design were ever described); I don't remember if Herbert ever specified why he used ornithopters and not helicopters, or planes, or airships, or levitating ships, though; maybe they'd be less likely to attract worms, maybe he just felt they added to the alien / far future feeling of the setting.
Good point, maybe rotary seals weren't up to the challenge of the extremely sandy conditions on dune so they needed to go with flexible bellows for protecting the internal mechanisms instead of gaskets. Or something.
Sealing a shaft is far easier than those flapping mechanisms and sand has been solved for many decades now. It never has to move lateral to the sealing surface, very unlike those flapping things. That is what makes it so easy.
The flap surfaces themselves have to move faster during the stroke than a continuously rotating blade, so they will also suffer from more damage due to abrasion.
I'm talking about something like this, it won't need any gap between the surfaces. But obviously I'm not an ornithopter designer on dune.
Jep, if the range of motion is enough, the sealing surface does not move there too.
I think dragon flies are a lot more agile than helicopters though. So if they've figured out how to fly like one, I imagine it would be the better choice.
They are more agile because they are tiny. Surface to mass ratio. One scales ³, one only ².
I loved the visual and sound design of this movie, the ornithopter design was awesome I agree. I kinda wish they just made the movie like the newer mad max though. Cut everything but the action and cgi scenes and don’t really spend much time setting up plot, just let the weird specificity of the universe speak for itself. I dunno I am sorry if this comes off like a huge dig at the movie.
I agree that would be cool, but it wouldn't really be dune. Dune is more about the politics and how ecology shapes societies. The climactic battle in Messiah was kept mostly off screen for example.
Yeah I thought they cut too much of the political intrigue for the movie, I want the dinner scene and the secret garden room!
I don’t disagree that it wouldn’t be dune in terms of what I have heard the books are like, but I don’t think the newest movie really gets across any of that beyond a surface level of setting up who the villain is. I know the next movie is going to put a twist on stuff, but judging the last dune movie as a self contained experience it just doesn’t really do anything interesting on that front in my opinion. The world building, art direction and cgi are what capture the viewer I think, which isn’t to devalue the movie it’s just the magic of the movie has 0% to do with the in my opinion.
but I don’t think the newest movie really gets across any of that beyond a surface level of setting up who the villain is.
The first movie was the first part of the book, and the first part of the book was basically just world building and introducing characters (and a lot of characters thinking about things alone).
I think there was a lot to like about the movie, it was beautiful and hopefully brings back the 'weird' sci-fi aesthetics of the pre Star Wars era, but if you aren't familiar with the book, then just first movie it isn't going to be satisfying as a story.
Dig all you want, i just wanna say that I am in the completely opposite camp. Minimal action is my jam from Villeneuve. The more like Arrival the better. IMO he is a master at just setting up vibes and tension. I could probably watch three hours of desert landscape shots if directed by him.
I can almost assure you that the second half of the book and thus the second movie is gonna be a lot more of what you are looking for though.
You're allowed to dig on a movie. And, in my view, this movie is far from reproach
This is literally a dragonfly.
It’s a cool design, but definitely not very inspired or praise worthy.
Hmm? I've never seen a dragon fly with a cockpit or three legs. Tones of adoption work needed.