the "fuck cars" mindset is typically that we're against car-dependency, not against people who are victims of car-dependent societies. Naturally people in suburbs and more rural areas, especially here in america, will need a car. It's not ideal and it's something that should be fixed but it happens.
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Fuck Cars
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Exactly. Blaming individuals for systemic problems never gets you anywhere. If you can reduce your car dependency, sure, do that, but don't beat yourself up if you can't.
This is important! On that note: The first "pesonal climate footprint caluclator" was developed and published by BP, the oil company. The idea was to make people feel bad about their personal behavior instead of questioning the business models and political influence/ anti-progress-lobbying of those corporations.
Also worth reminding that the whole “carbon footprint” thing was made up by Shell, with that one and similar tactics they have effectively manipulated working class people into believing they are responsible (and guilty) of things like CO2 emissions, global warming, car-reliant infrastructure…
Which obviously doesn't mean we can't take action or that one should buy a diesel car and take it to go anywhere because it's Shell and BP who should stop profiteering from the impending climate catastrophe, and expecting these corporations to join the efforts to control global warming and shift our transport infrastructures out of their own free will would be very naïve. But those changes have to come from a structural point, rather than individual.
It's important to note that there are some countries where even the rural communities have enough transit options that cars aren't necessary. It's less common, but it does exist.
I hope my local government makes bus service better then as the alternative is more than 3 hours of bus rides with a large cramped bus :/
Yup. I also find myself in an american car-dependent suburb and it's honestly hell here. Public transit is basically non-existent, and we don't even have sidewalks. I really wish america would do better on walkable cities and public transit. It's annoying.
Fair enough I'm in a rural town in Europe and it's mostly an issue of having to get to the city, thankfully I don't need to use a car for anything else other than getting to work and maybe the nearest large town but that's mostly due to the fact that a family sadly needs loads of groceries to feed itself.
yeah if you do most of your day to day tasks without a car and just use a car sometimes then that's great. the issue is like how it is here in america where you literally can't do anything without a car. it sucks.
Yeah I've heard about it from my boyfriend it's crazy! He goes "see you in 3 hours I gotta go shopping"
that's how it is Dx. 1 hour drive to get to the store and a 1 hour drive back, plus all the time you spend shopping.
Do you think it'll get better?
I think more people are finally becoming aware of the issue, so yeah I think we'll eventually start heading in the right direction. maybe not at the pace the netherlands did it, but... eventually.
Yeah, I think this is kind of a problem with fuck cars communication. It really needs to be clear that it's against car dependency.
I mean I'm a "fuck cars purist" I'm not a fan of cars at all. But yes, the movement is very much about car-dependency, not cars.
Owning a car if you need one is not in itself a problem. "fuckcars" isn't about blindly hating cars, it's about being aware that cars are inefficient, dangerous, and bad for people's health. It's about raising awareness about how car-centric and car-dependent society has become, despite there being better ways to structure transportation.
Thank you for the clarification, so what I'm hearing is that owning a car is fine if it's not something outrageously large or inefficient and I don't have good public transit connections?
We're not some kind of cult setting rules for how people should live. If you need a car, buy a car, if you want to own some kind of ridiculous lifted truck, you can do that, but I'll reserve the right to make fun of you and think you're an asshole.
Fair enough haha
I think everyone here understands that most people don't live in northern Europe with great cycling and train infrastructure. So you do what you got to do to live a happy life in car infested capitalist society, nothing wrong with that. If that means you need a car, get a car. Preferably it'd be used and with a low ride height / bumper height. So it's at least a bit safer for cyclist and pedestrians.
I think all we ask is that when there is an opportunity to advocate for more pedestrian or cycling infrastructure that you do so
Well, you sort of have to. That's the issue.
I consider it a larger problem than the individuals and their cars. It's mostly political, and I won't bore you with my opinion on that
However, as an individual you can still consider your options as they arise.
If you're looking for a new job or new house, consider the commute. If you're commuting every day, consider if you can shop groceries or visit people on the way, so you don't have to drive again later the same day. If you're planning long distance trips, consider if it's better driving to the train station instead of the whole trip. Share the ride if possible. Etc.
There are many ways to drive less. Most are pretty obvious, but some people don't even consider anything at all because the car is such an ingrained part of life. It all starts with the thought: I don't really want to drive.
Do it to save gas and money, do it to save time, do it to get fresh air. These are the direct consequences of not wanting to drive.
Or course it is. Also, it’s ok to not literally fuck cars. It’s just a sentiment that we wish cars didn’t have to dominate so much due to poor civic planning.
FuckCars is not about BEING carfree, it's about realizing that you're FORCED to have a car, to pay $10,000 per year to own that car, to breathe in the pollution from the roads, to risk your life on the road, and how bad that sucks.
Unless you are directly involved in agricultural production or natural conservation etc. it is kind of unsustainable to live in a rural area (except totally off-grid etc.). One reason being the need for a car to do basic things.
Of course as an individual it is not easy to just totally change ones life situation, so yes with the above caveat and being aware of the car issues of course, IMHO it is acceptable to own a car in a rural area. I do too.
I don't think I agree with that. There are other reasons to live in a more rural area like being more secluded, closer to nature or, more commonly, cost of living.
A rural area also does not imply car dependence. I myself have recently moved to a fairly rural area (1.5k inhabitants) and can still get just about everything done by bike.
This only works because the neighbouring village a few km away has a supermarket and a train station with service to the next largest city and a metropolis. It's not very good train service mind you (single non-electric rail with hourly schedule) but even that is enough for me to not need a car. Imagine how much would be possible if it was actually decent train service.
I can understand why you might want a car in such a situation but it's certainly not required.
I live in a rural area and have just accepted that owning a car is a necessity. The shitty thing about living in a car dependent system is that your awareness of the shiftiness of the system doesn't necessarily exempt you from having to still live inside of it.
Yeahhhh :( it sucks
I bought an ebike and that's been kind of a game changer. Its allowed my partner and I to share a car, and I just ebike around at 40km/hour whenever she needs to drive. It requires a bit of willingness to get cold/wet, and some creativity with bike locking, but it makes those 10-15km distances in my hometown realistically accessible by bike on an everyday basis.
That's amazing, although in the EU rules are more strict on ebikes. Especially with ones over a certain limit. They can only really go max 25/h and if they go over they become by law a vehicle and need a license plate and a driving license to drive.
25km is so frigging slow. My wife has a normal bike and she has to slow down for me (on ebike) to catch up. I don't understand why they didn't make it 30km/h, plenty of people cycle that fast.
I can cycle faster than 25km/h with my pedelec by using my legs. The bike does not stop me from going faster, there is just no motor support then.
Thanks for the info! I was thinking of getting a e-bike but I always ran into this issue of not knowing where to lock it and also what I would do if the e-bike broke down. How do you deal with these things?
I’ve been using a ratty old normal bike to take care of those issues: I can just chain to like parking signs and people don’t care enough to steal it, and I can fix a regular bike, but as you’ve said sometimes one just isn’t down for 20km of exercise.
IMO the question isn't is it's moral to own a car, it's what can you do to be the least dependant on cars as possible, and reduce its impact. Some may be able to avoid them completely, but don't beat yourself up if you're being forced to drive.
How do you feel about motorcycles?
Arghhh the loudness of these things, makes me crazy, at least get an electronic one (that's on the other hand totally ok IMHO).
Me too, I have to plug my ears when I'm biking and a motorcycle passes me. There are some quiet gas ones though.
Yeah, in rural areas it makes sense to own a car because public transportation is often sparse or absent. In your case, you could use the car to get just to train station and then take the train.
I think that cars are OK for people that:
-Live in rural areas -People with larger families -Operate essential-ish services(e.g. deliveries)
But for most other people, cars are not needed.
I'm in a somewhat rural area, but I'm a shut-in w/o a license or much money.
If wanted a car, I'd probably go for something like a Kei-truck for the utility/efficiency/value. Especially converting it to electric. (I'd get a Kei-van if I had friends). Also, NotJustBikes approves (see 7:35)
I have a cheap-but-has-gears compact ebike and live close to a trail, but honestly I use it for the outdoor activity first as the distance is annoying for a round-trip and there isn't much around especially me lacking a bike mirror and mobile GPS. Plus I do decide if I go based on weather.
Just move somewhere where there's transport if you can.
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