this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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Man I'd hate being a young man today.
Guys are put in a position where they have to put themselves out there and face rejection. it's obviously becoming harder to connect with women given that a larger and larger percentage of men under 21 report being virgins every year.
Then as a result of being in this sad but common position you get told that it's all your fault and you're a shitty person.
I think I would have just ended up killing myself if I was a teenager today.
Feel like a higher rate of virgins could be a good sign that people aren't feeling pressured to do things they don't want to.
Virginity among women hasn't climbed in nearly the same way, most men 21 and under also report having never been in a relationship, young men's mental health has declined more than any other demographic, and incel culture seems to be on the rise.
I realllly don't think this is a good thing.
Women were under the opposite pressure: to stay a virgin. Also, some people don't want to be in relationships. In middle/high school, a lot of dating was obviously performative and they were only "dating" because of social pressures to do so. I'm no longer a teen, so I have no clue what the pressures are now. It could be the pressures are still there and more people are failing to meet them (hence, the incel community). I know they're not completely gone, because I still sometimes hear about things like people dating because they want to have someone for prom or whatever.
Given how complex mental health is, trying to tie it to just one thing that correlates with it is not very convincing. Likewise, even if incel culture is on the rise, it seems much more reasonable to connect that to the growth of the internet and the niche communities it allows to fester and become visible.
Why is it when anyone tries to acknowledge any sort of issues men have some asshole tries to dismiss them?
There's obviously issues. I grew up in a time that pressured people into doing things like dating and having sex they didn't want. Real issue men face. Are you dismissing that issue?
I'm not saying that issue doesn't exist, I'm saying your implication that the rise in men who have never been in relationships is a good thing is ridiculous.
First, women are in a relationship at a much higher percentage in younger age groups. The idea that women love to be in relationships but men don't is straight up sexism on your part.
There are also huge reports of loneliness and isolation among men. There are reports of a significant minority of men being bitter about not being in relationships or having sex. It's clearly a big deal.
You are arguing in bad faith in an attempt to dismiss a real issue men face.
You say it doesn't exist, but you promoted the anti-virgin and anti-single norms (whether you believe in them or not) and try to tie complex multifaceted issues like depression and loneliness to your single pet issue. You say I'm acting in bad faith, but I take personal issue with the ideas you are promoting incidental to your main point (which isn't something I'm really responding to at all).
A big part of this is moving everything online, it makes the available pool too wide and doesn't allow for things to be forgotten as easily. Meeting people in person allows the awkward stuff to be forgotten and the highlights remembered. It can still go terribly wrong, but there was more meaningful interaction.
Yeah the world is super fucked up. I met almost all my previous hook ups (along with my GF) in real life.
Also according to my single friends it got infinitely worse during covid. Although I'm in my late twenties and almost everyone over thirty says it's not super hard or anything. I don't know if that's a generational difference or old stereotypes are actually true.
I'm just glad that I grew up in a different era.
My point was that the pickup artists who claim that they are helping or empowering young men are in fact not helping them to get a healthy attitude towards the other sex or enabling them to be in healthy relationships. Instead (most of) the tips of the pickup artists are in contra productive and will make you sad, angry and alone. I don't think it's in their interest that you get healthy relationships, because that would mean that they would loose a client.
And I also do not think it's a good idea to suggest suicide to troubled teenagers.
I'm not suggesting suicide, I'm saying I would personally have not been able to manage as a boy in today's world because of how fucked up this is.
The way I read it was that anyone who has trouble with women is doing something stupid like this. A lot of normal guys just don't have a real chance these days.
if i killed myself it isnt cause im not banging people rofl
Women had to adjust to be expected to work and do housework, still make less money per hour of labor, still represent the minority of ceos/leaders/comfy asshole billionaires, way more likely to be the ones in danger physically when picking a partner incorrectly, but go on guys about how life is so hard for you. Sounds like most of you are considerably less able to adapt than the women around you.
Seriously, I hate this shit. There are real issues men face and it's always the same story.
"These issues don't exist"
"Yeah these issues exist but women have it worse so they don't matter. Also you're a sexist POS".
"LMAO men are suffering. Sucks to suck"
You're proving his point ffs
And you're proving mine. Men whine about shit that women have had to shut up and deal with for centuries.
Still doesn't mean it's not an issue, not talkign about problems doesn't mean they don't exist. When you shut up about issues they won't improve
yeah I think the sad part to me is that it seems the majorty of the men aren't realizing that the issue is the rich guy drank their milkshake. I'm extra angry in this comment chain, because I'm simultaneously being told in another comment that the reason men are slipping is that 'women have too many resources'.
Men have a choice. Join with women and fight the rich, or blame women and let's go to war.
I think a quite a few people actually agree with your point, but you just seem a bit too aggressive in the other comments but idk
yeah this convo got anger radiation from another similar convo about the same subject where the guys were blaming their economic woes on women much more openly. Essentially claiming that the reason boys were falling behind is that women have too much.
The tone of my responses to both threads blended and became angry due to scapegoating of women in the other thread, this thread was just men talking about their problems which I could've scrolled by.
but yeah anytime you see a guy claiming that 'boys are falling behind because women have too much' they are doing the work of the rich
So if it's not an issue for men it shouldn't be for women either, so why are you now complaining about having to deal with the issues you don't think are a big deal?