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Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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politics
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If shes so concerned about people turning on Biden, maybe she needs to head to the oval office and tell him to stop fucking funding and equiping a goddamn genocide.
Cause one thing you forget, Democrats are not cultists. We will not tie ourselves into knots trying to defend your bullshit. We will call out, and criticize you when its appropriate.
and supporting and equiping a fucking genocide is a pretty goddamn appropriate thing to be criticizing Biden on.
Its not on the voters to get over it.
Its on Biden to stop fucking doing it and to tell Israel to fuck off.
Is Israel apartheid and slaughtering the Palestinians really so important that you'd throw away the election for?
Turn it around.
Is being noble on Gaza worth risking Gaza being obliterated by Trump and the GOP?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/we-should-kill-them-all-everybody-in-hamas-gop-lawmaker-tells-pro-palestinian-activist/
Is being noble on Gaza worth risking Gaza being obliterated by Trump and the GOP?
And Ukraine being destroyed by Russia? And women's rights further eroding? And LGBTQ rights further eroding?
Even if you accept the premise that Biden and Trump are equally bad for Gaza, there's so many other issues on the table.
I'm going to ignore the implication that "being noble on Gaza" is actually more risky for him and just assume that's true. What the fuck kind of question is this?? Biden should absolutely change course to being noble on Gaza. Yes it is worth the risk, arguing that he shouldn't take that risk is saying you're okay with continuing to sacrifice Palestinian lives over the coming months if it means a better chance of beating Trump and saving them from a theoretical worse fate.
Sure, there's a chance Biden will lose the election anyway, but I'm sure they're capable of understanding how necessary their sacrifice was. I actually kind of hope that you're one of the people who thinks we all should support Israel and that you're making a bad attempt to play sympathetic here, because this this is an absolutely ludicrous contortion to justify continuing to fund a genocide.
No one makes the decision to continue funding the destruction of a people out of concern for what those people might go through if you don't. Total horseshit.
I was talking about the voters, not Biden.
Because you expect one to change and not the other.
They always want to blame the voters. Its always the voters fault.
Its our fault for failing democracy. Not the candidates fault for betraying it.
Yes, I do.
I was contributing to Liz Warren and Bernie in 2019.
Never got one person knocking on my door to see if I needed a ride to the polls.
Read up on the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell. Falwell went to the grassroots of the GOP and got his agenda enshrined because his people worked the system.
The Left had four years to get Bernie nominated. The Left failed Bernie and me.
Congrats for being literally the problem.
Maybe hold your representatives accountable, rather than getting angry at other people having the audacity to do what you refuse to do.
So, I'm the problem because I donated to Bernie?
Or because I'd rather have Biden have a big win over Trump?
Or because I actually put out a roadmap the Left could use?
No. You're the problem cause you literally ignore what we were just talking about, because its inconvenient for whatever ridiculous complex you have going on, so instead you are arguing against a completely made up comment that no one made.
You're the problem because you have fallen into the right wing mindset of blind worship and admiration, of turning against anyone who dare to utter a criticism, no matter how factual and valid, against dear leader.
Which leads one to ask if you are actually this fucking obtuse, or if you're just here saying your stupid shit just to troll.
The Right went out and mobilized effective grassroots organizations that got out the vote and stood firm.
The Left didn't do that.
Getting mad at me isn't going to change anything.
Left voters had four years to make sure Bernie got the nomination. They failed.
Back in the day, the SDS could organize a march on Washington with mimeograph machines and payphone.
Finally, at this point, the choice is Trump and the GOP, who have literally called for the deaths of all Palestinians, and Biden, who hasn't.
If Biden wins in November, I'll be able to vote for someone else in 2028.
If Trump wins, I will probably never be allowed to vote again.
Okay now you're not even a troll, You're just a poorly programmed bot if you're now just copy and pasting irrelevant responses.
Because I know I'm never going to agree with any politician 100% ever.
Option 1) vote for the guy that we know with certainty supports the genocide - he sends money, bombs, and military aid (aircraft carriers, navy ships, squadrons of fighter jets) in order to defend Israel from other threats
He diplomatically shields Israel from consequences by vetoing any possible UNSC resolution that would stop the bloodshed.
Option 2) vote for the guy who probably would do all the same stuff.
So 100% versus 90%
90% is the rational decision. If Gaza is your one-issue that determines your voting, you should vote for Trump.
And you may say how unethical, Trump is racist and helped kill Roe V Wade and he's a lunatic who wants to take over the country - and you'd be right.
But are you really going to tell a group of people that are being slaughtered with impunity that your issues are more important than the life and death of tens of thousands of people?
I refuse to vote for Trump because I'm a one-issue voter too... but likewise I do not want to vote for Biden because they are identical on that issue.
I would put it this way.
If Biden wins in 2024, I'm sure I'll be able to vote for someone else in 2028.
If Trump wins, I'm pretty sure there's never going to be another election.
Or, maybe, it's more complicated than that. MAYBE supporting Israel in the middle-east helps keep some semblance of stability in a region that would otherwise be constantly at war, with Iran in particular doing their best to take over all of their neighbors. That's ignoring the fact that unless you're advocating us going to war WITH Israel - the second we pull all funding we also lose all leverage we have with them, and I would expect an almost immediate expansion into all Palestinian territory overnight given their current leadership.
Is the situation fucked? Yes. Is it going to be fixed by pulling funding? Absolutely not.
Oh thank god the middle east is at peace! And we owe it all to Biden's unconditional support of Netanyahu's genocide!
So your alternative is what? Other than brainless comments on social media that is, that really seems to be making a significant change in the situation so please keep at it. 50 years of the world's thought leaders unable to come to an amicable resolution, I'm sure you've got all the answers. let's hear your plan for peace in Gaza.
HURR DURR IF WE DONT VOTE FOR BIDEN ISRAEL WILL GET THE PICTURE, TRUMP 2024!!111
I have never advocated not voting for Biden in the 2024 election. He doesn't need to support the genocide you clearly want and love. You want me to have a plan for peace in Gaza? I don't and neither do you. But we don't have to be party to genocide. And we don't have to lie and say that the genocide you keep making excuses for is keeping a non-existent peace in the region.
Stability means bombing hospitals. Got it.
"semblance of stability in a region that would otherwise be constantly at war-" are you stupid? blind? just plain ignorant?
Neither. Paid shill.
Only a paid shill could unironically call Israel a stabilizing factor in the middle east with a straight face, lol.