this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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United States | News & Politics
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I see this argument every time a protest is held.
Can you name the number of times an emergency vehicle like an ambulance was blocked with a negative consequence from a blockade protest and divide it by the number of times such protests have occurred in the US?
I want to know what your threshold of “too much risk” means in terms of empirical data.
Oh, and then compare that to regular traffic!
Yeah, I think the fact that highway blockages are viewed so divisively only points to how effective they are. They have economic impact and are hugely visible -- I think they're one of the most effective non-violent direct action tactics available, though the participants should prepare to have the book thrown at them.
I think they should be treated as harshly as police who harass and assault people - there should be an internal investigation by other protestors, and if suspicion is found they should be forced to go on leave from work with full pay until the investigation concludes they were only doing what they were trained to do.
I most certainly cannot. I wouldn’t even know where to start to find that data. I’m not sure it’s ever happened, nor if it’s something that would even be tracked/documented in any meaningful way. Tons of random things can delay something like an ambulance - car crashes, inclement weather, rush hour, etc.
My point was not that freeway-blocking protests are inherently bad, just that my feelings of the potential for negative impacts to innocent “bystanders” stress me out. I am not a fan of freeway-blocking protests for the same reason that I am not a fan of icy roads.
Now, is a freeway-blocking protest effective? Depends on how you quantify effectiveness. Was awareness raised? (Probably.) Were the lives of Gaza’s residents improved? (Probably not.) Would some other protest format have been more effective? (Probably not.) Are any protests really that effective when our government answers to billionaires instead of citizens? (Doubt it.) Does that mean we should lay down and accept mistreatment of our fellow humans? (Fuck no!)
So in theory you would have a much bigger problem with people who tailgate, exceed the speed limit, and fail to signal when changing lanes, or who fail to admit in people on lane merges, right? I’m pretty sure that, just at a raw numbers level, these kinds of things (along with the more obvious ones like texting while driving) cause far more traffic delays than the occasional protest.
Do you have a history of complaining about traffic violations in general, or is it just for people protesting for social justice?
Look, I know I’m slamming you and you don’t deserve it. I know it sounds like I’m attacking you personally, and that is not my intent. What I’m trying to draw attention to, however clumsily, is that this sort of narrative gets passed around very easily, even among the most well meaning of people. It’s regularly mentioned in the right wing media, and even in centrist media like the NYT. I’ve just worked on propaganda models for too long to not occasionally say something.
Fuck yes I do. (Can I say “fuck” in here?) Driving is dangerous, and people don’t take it seriously enough. Forget traffic delays, people die on the roads every single day. Heck, I wonder if this freeway shutdown could’ve actually saved lives.
The former, in multitudes. My partner told me that I’m not allowed to comment on other peoples’ driving around her anymore because it got annoying. I also have a history of complaining about how car-centric our society is in general, but that’s a topic for another day.
Thank you for that last paragraph, because I was about to throw myself a pity party lol. I think you raise an excellent point, and this type of “what-if-ism” is dangerous because it’s a distraction from the bigger issue at best, and demonizes social justice movements at worst. Definitely something I’ll keep in mind in the future.
https://komonews.com/news/local/downtown-protest-on-i-5-blocks-ambulance-carrying-patient-in-critical-condition-seattle-downtown-washington-state-patrol-harborview
So your numerator is 1. What’s your denominator? Let’s call it the number of street blocking protests in the last ten years.
In addition, the article doesn’t mention any ill effects coming from the delay, so we should probably be using a weighted function for this to see when it had an actual medical consequence.