this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
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Mildly Infuriating

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That massive spike of 50c/kWh at the left looks tiny compared to today even though that's already insanely expensive

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Interesting.

At these temperatures, I can't imagine air source heat pumps being very efficient.

I would probably have a spare gas, oil or wood based heater and use that for days like this, or for if the power goes off on days like this.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Older houses definitely have them... but there was this trend at some point to renavate older houses and remove the oil heaters and fireplaces and wood heated saunas, and replace everything with electric ones. Why? No idea, trends are weird.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Electricity is usually less polluting than the various fuels, wood fires especially will fill a valley with smoke, the rest are mostly to avoid the carbon dioxide

[–] azertyfun 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Carbon monoxide too... and chimney fires... don't forget about indoor emissions with open stoves... Even if you don't care about the environment, electric wins the health&safety race by a landslide. Forgetting to do the maintenance on a heat pump doesn't exactly carry the same risks as with a wood stove.

Heat pumps are expensive and electricity can vary in price (who in their right mind opts in to spot pricing without on-site power generation tho, what the hell). Still, it's not hard to see why everyone who can afford it is electrifying.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Also Russian fossil fuels

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

What about a solar + electric heating?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Well, here (in middle of finland) the sun set at 14:30, so there wasn't all that much solar energy available.

Also heat pumps are always at least as efficient as straight electric heating.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

It think above -20C or so, cold weather heat pumps are still way more efficient than resistive electric heating.

Good R-factor insulation is probably the most important upgrade in OP’s case. There are people where I live in the Northeast who heat their homes almost exclusively with the waste heat from cooking, electronics or old incandescent lighting. They have like R-30+ homes and really neat ventilation designs for cooling in the summer too.

I had plans to build a tiny home with Vacuum insulated panels and a small marine stove for heat, until we had a child and plans changed.

Now I’m looking at a solar battery setup with geothermal heat pump that will probably cost nearly what the whole tiny home was gonna be.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Solar is quite poor in Northern winters. Wind + solar + heat would be a better bet, but the battery required to heat your house for more than a day with low winds would be prohibitively expensive unless you added geothermal to the mix like a geothermal heatpump which is also very expensive. Betweem the gear, battery, geothermal, all installed your probably in the 80k$ range or more. A wood stove would be the best bet

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Finland has about 5.2GW of wind capacity vs 4.3 nuclear. If it's a windy day the spot price will usually be low.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Good point, for aome reason i was thinking more off-grid than load balancing economics. The battery would probably help lower power by filling when power is cheap and supplying when the rates spike throughout the day

[–] Bronzie 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Newer models are actually.
We had negative 30 C the last two days and our air-to-air kept the whole upper floor comfortable. 90 m².

Granted it's a brand new and very well insulated house, but -30 bites well on those too!

Most houses up here have other electric alternatives or a fireplace.
Gas and oil are beyond abnormal to have and I think oil is even illegal in Norway now...
Don't quote me on that though

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wow, air to air even?

But do you know what the COP is at -30?

[–] Bronzie 2 points 11 months ago

Here is a link to it

I must make a small correction though: The last night with -30 it struggled a bit. Only managed to keep the upper floor at 19 °C so we had to turn on the cables to get over the peak.
I'm still mightily impressed by it though!
Max consumption was 32 kW/day, so roughly 4-5 € pr/day with our prices.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Heat pumps only work to about -4c.