this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
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[–] [email protected] 51 points 8 months ago (11 children)

While undeniably horrible...

It's important to remember that's pretty much how all Palestinians have been forced to live for generations.

At any moment IDF can burst in, and either kill or abduct you and torture you.

Neither side should be doing it, but one side does it constantly for 70 years now. When the little guy manages to get a single punch in on the bully, it doesn't seem rational to excuse the bully for years of aggression and act like there was no reason they got punched.

Especially if the bully beats the crap out of the little guy for getting that punch in.

The little guy can't do anything else except stand there and take it. The bully can stop being a bully whenever they feel like it.

It's asymmetrical, both sides don't have equal power to stop it.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

I’d dismissive to just Palestine as “the little guy” who tried a punch.

What happened to Palestine was awful, but they’ve been launching rockets into Israel and Israel was formed after Palestinians attacked them.

They were a neglected part of the Ottoman Empire, then the Brits and French promised them a united Arab state if they overthrow the ottomans, so they did, then the Brits and French reneged and strongly favoured Jewish settlement (Jews were being lynched in Europe, so it was kind of an easy solution to support them leaving at the expense of someone else). The British pulled out, the Palestinians attacked the Jews, it started a civil war and Israel won their independence and claimed the land.

There’s no clear right side or clear big guy or little guy. Is just generations of shit for hundreds of years coming to a head.

Hamas is awful and has been lobbing rockets at Israel for years and uses human shields, the Palestinian people deserve better, and it’s wrong for Israel to ignore the collateral damage they’re inflicting in this “ends justify the means war” are all true.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Since 2000, the ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths is 21:1 (NYT). Rockets? The name evokes weapons from Lockheed or Boeing, but Hamas and Islamic Jihad make them in garages and basement tunnels while Israel has the most hitech interceptors available. It's still comparatively slingshots to F-16s.

Hamas was created in 1987, and has benefited from disproportionate treatment from the Israelis, who used Hamas to divide the Palestinian resistance. When Israel blows ckekd the negotiation tactics of the secular Palestinian resistance, what else were Palestinians to do? Palestinians in Gaza tried mass civil disobedience I'm 2018 with the Walk of Return, but Israel used live rounds and nearly 300 were killed and thousands wounded. How else were the Palestinians to seek freedom?

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