this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
124 points (94.3% liked)

News

23664 readers
3557 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From the article (saved you a click):

KEY POINTS

  • Nearly all Americans are concerned about the current state of the economy.

  • Still, many continue to spend more and save less.

  • “Doom spending” may be one way to cope with stress as economic fears mount, however, it comes at the expense of your financial well-being.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Still, many continue to spend more and save less.

That's what happens when literally everything costs more than it used to.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

That may be part of it but isn't a full explanation. For instance black Friday spending increased by 7.5% compared to last year, whereas inflation increased 3.2% over the last year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/28/black-friday-weekend-shopping-turnout-soars-to-a-record.html

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/cpi_11142023.pdf

People are increasing their consumption still.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Eh, given the sales that go on black Friday, people may have been saving for large but necessary purchases. That black Friday was as big as it was is also a sign that people are trying to save a buck.

I know I picked up a washer and dryer, and not much else

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You may be right, October retail sales growth was weaker and something like 2.6% growth (just under the 3.2% inflation) as described in articles linked by the posted article. Forecasts are for all holiday spending to reach record levels this year beyond just what inflation would suggest. When the year finishes there will be more concrete data beyond just black Friday to find out for sure.

I think doom spending is a reasonable idea.

I think another piece is increasing wages. Those increased on average year over year in October by 5.2%. So many people probably feel individually they can afford the increased prices and buy even more on top. Though if you're in an industry or situation where you haven't been able to leverage the high labor demand and low unemployment for increased wages like most across the entire economy have been able to, you're probably hurting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think, if the data is granular enough, you could see it in what people were buying. Of half the sales were in DVDs and grown-up-toys, then yeah, it’s doom spending.

But I doubt anyone whose pay check to pay check or even remotely close just went out and drop loads of cash on things that weren’t either vaguely needed or budgeted into savings.

Outside of Black Friday, spending increases are accounted for by increase in food and energy inflation- not to mention the cost of debt- especially revolving debt.

Also consider, that the 5% gains you cite probably include people that don’t really need them. The rest of us see a net loss compared to inflation- maybe not yoy, but compared to the last three years certainly. Rememebe the whole point raising interest is to both reduce demand and reduce increases in pay. (After all, it’s all the consumer’s fault and not at all greedy corporations fixing the prices of eggs… which are pretty much used in every kitchen.)

This year no toys for me- rather it was very much needed appliances.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"the rest of us see a net loss compared to inflation"

The data suggests most people have not seen a net loss compared to inflation. Agreed you would need more granular data to know for sure, in case the mean was too influenced by outliers. So I looked up median too which are seeing similar rates of wage growth. So no that doesn't appear to be the case. Most people are not seeing a net loss compared to inflation. If you back up to three years ago, when we had a period of rapidly lowering inflation as the entire economy shut down, oil was literally being given away, and people were getting additional checks and tax credits in the mail, then yes you're right, real wages still lag about three percent. If you compare to four years ago, December, 2019, a more normal economic situation just before the pandemic, then wages have fully compensated for inflation in comparison to then.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2023/median-weekly-earnings-increased-5-7-percent-over-the-year-ending-in-the-second-quarter-of-2023.htm?mf_ct_campaign=yahoo-synd-feed

Real wages 2019 December https://stats.bls.gov/news.release/archives/realer_01142020.pdf

Real wages October 2023 https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

Things should also continue to get better, as wage growth has been outpacing inflation again since January 2023.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/

You also mention well maybe low wage workers aren't getting the increase. It's actually the opposite, lower wage earners have seen more of the wage increase.

https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think there's a real argument to be made in favor of the doomspending hypothesis, particularly with younger millenials and housing. If you accept that you're simply not going to be buying a house any time remotely soon, the temptation grows to just say fuck it and go buy some nice stuff or go on a trip.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Speaking with an n of 1, I've certainly noticed I tend to spend more impulsively when stressed. Definitely a theory.