this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!

Rules

0. Only post socialist memes

That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)

1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here

Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.

2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,

as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.

3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.

That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).

4. No Bigotry.

The only dangerous minority is the rich.

5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)

6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.

7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm guessing they mean liberal in the classical sense and not liberal in the liberal/conservative meaning of the current US political parties.

[–] Varyk 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They're talking about the current wars and the current civil rights movements, so that wouldn't make sense anyway.

"Whigs sure hate Instagram".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Conservatives are liberals, too

[–] Varyk 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I mean conservatism directly spawned from liberalism and is correctly seen as a subgroup of classical liberalism but okay

[–] Varyk 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

That is shockingly ignorant or deliberately misleading.

Can you elaborate as to which one you're going for?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You seem ignorant of what classical liberalism is.

Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism which advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; and civil liberties under the rule of law, with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech.

And yet you insult those who are correct.

[–] Varyk 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Haha, not even close.

Strong move, to jump on the bandwagon a day late and a dollar short, though.

I guess it's good you're learning

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Wow, I can't think of a less substantiative reply. Why did you bother?

[–] Varyk 0 points 9 months ago

How did you know what I was going to ask?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Since I can’t be bothered I had Chatgpt generate a response

Understanding conservatism as a subset of liberalism requires a nuanced view of the historical and philosophical development of these ideologies. Initially, these terms might seem contradictory, but under a broader definition of liberalism, conservatism can be considered a variant or an offshoot.

Liberalism, in its broadest historical sense, refers to a range of ideas centered around the importance of individual liberty, the rule of law, and, often, limited government. This broad category emerged during the Enlightenment and was instrumental in shaping the modern Western political and social order. Classical liberalism, in particular, emphasizes individual freedom, economic freedom, and minimal state intervention.

Conservatism, while often positioned in opposition to liberalism (especially in its progressive or social liberal forms), can be seen as a subset of liberalism in the context of this broader historical perspective. This view holds when considering that conservatism in Western political thought often shares with liberalism a commitment to certain fundamental principles such as the rule of law, individual rights (although conservatism places a stronger emphasis on communal values and traditions), and, frequently, the free market.

However, conservatism diverges from liberalism in its emphasis on tradition, authority, and often a skepticism of rapid social change. Conservative liberalism, or liberal conservatism, is a term used to describe ideologies that blend liberal values (like economic freedom) with conservative stances (such as an emphasis on traditional social structures).

In summary, while conservatism and liberalism are distinct in their traditional definitions and core philosophies, conservatism can be viewed as a subset of liberalism in the context of a broader, historical understanding of liberalism. This perspective sees both ideologies sharing some fundamental values but differing significantly in their approach to tradition, social change, and the balance between individual rights and communal responsibilities.

[–] Varyk 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you don't even understand your own arguments, try not making them.

That AI explanation is even more narrow than the other incorrect narratives you've tried to put forth.

It's basically saying that if you look at blue as a color and acknowledge that red is a color, then blue is technically a subset of red.

Which it is not

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I could explain. I just don’t see you as being worth the bother. Your uninformed followup that features exactly no useful rejoinders or any conception of political philosophy confirms I made the correct decision to treat you like a stooge.

I have engaged in no narratives, simply a correct understanding of the history and philosophy of the liberal movement.

I highly doubt you know enough about liberalism to even say what the philosophy cares about at its core.

I wish it surprised me that liberals don’t even know what liberalism is, but I’ve been involved in political debates for far too long.

[–] Varyk 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

More vague accusations with no evidence or theses behind them.

You are single-mindedly focused on exposing your own ignorance.

By all means, take another swing.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

oh dear god

try not to hurt yourself thinking

literally none of this is controversial to anyone with any sort of understanding of political philosophy. but go off

[–] Varyk 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As long as you can't put forth a coherent thesis or even a clear opinion, you aren't going to gain any ground.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Your rejoinder to the coherent thesis was "nuh uh" and "robot bad" so i think I'm just gonna point and laugh now, you dumb fuck.

[–] Varyk 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sounds about your speed: vague, easily diaprovsble claims, make up arguments for others because you can't defend your own incorrect opinions or counter theirs, and then retreat.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Okay then disprove them?

Jesus the amount of projection going on could power a small continent if properly captured.

[–] Varyk 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Self-hating bot? That's a new one. Lmao I just saw that you referenced the Whigs as liberals. You literally proved my point before this even started. Google Edmund Burke you absolute shit-stain.

Blocked.

[–] Varyk 1 points 9 months ago

"A new one" that you made up instead of accurately addressing my points.

And then you pretended I wrote something I didn't.

Scurry away.