Conservative
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
-
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
-
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
-
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
view the rest of the comments
And oddly, gun deaths are up as well. What an interesting coincidence.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Wow, really? You want a fucking gold star for figuring out that a category solely defined by the use of guns is correlated with guns?
The real question that you idiots refuse to answer is why you care about gun violence specifically when all available data shows that targeting it has no actual impact on violence as a whole.
It could be that the increase in gun related murders may be a factor in motivating people to purchase guns for protection. And the increase in ownership may also be a reflection of the number of people who purchased guns for a planned suicide, as evidenced by the rise in that number too.
While I'm sure that's a small part of it, studies have already shown than owning a gun increases your risk for suicide, and the risk of homicide.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homicide-risk.html
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
Guns are a catalyst for disaster. If you're suicidal, a gun makes it a lot easier to commit suicide, and therefore a lot more likely that you'll do it. If you're a violent person, a gun being nearby makes it more likely that your violent actions will be lethal.
If it was simply and only [gun murder rise] -> [rise in gun sales for protection], that alone wouldn't explain why gun deaths by suicide also rise. The explanation is that owning a gun makes death more likely. Which when you think about it, it is absolutely shocking that an item purpose built to kill makes death more likely.
Whelp, if you can't convince people to get a vaccination for a virus that killed millions, you won't convince people that giving up their guns will reduce their chance of getting killed.
I think a lot of people are convinced that there would be less crime overall if more people had guns and cc permits. But I bet if some wealthy philanthropist set up a foundation to subsidize affordable guns and ammo for low income families and immigrants there would probably be a lot more political will to regulate firearms.
This is a rare and rational take. Thank you.
Because it won't. This has been proven time and time again. Reducing guns doesn't reduce violence.
The point of reducing gun availability isn't to reduce instances of violence, it's to reduce the carnage after it. The force multiplying effect of a knife is significantly less than most guns.
If we assume people are violent and dangerous, then we should limit the damage they can do.
If thsr were true, would we not see significantly higher rats of homicide and the like when guns are more prevalent? Or even any notable change whatsoever?
We do see that trend though. Compare the homicide rates of the U.S. with European countries.
Ahh, yes. Because there's absolutely zero other differences between countries. If you had a valid point and not just bullshit, countries like Switzerland and Finland would be the murder capitals of Europe and not some of the safest, no?
You're the one who asked this question:
To which the answer is yes, we see significantly high rates of homicide where guns are more prevalent.
So you're saying we should move our gun law to be closer in line with those two countries? I agree! Let's start by instituting Finland's requirement for a gun license to be able to own a gun.
Yeah, except you're literally just lieing out your ass.
The U.S. has 120 guns for every 100 people, and a homicide rate or 6 per 100,000.
Finland has 32 guns for every 100 people, and a homicide rate of 1.6 per 100,000
Germany has 20 guns for every 100 people, and a homicide rate of 0.8 per 100,000.
The U.S. has the most lax gun law, followed by Finland. Germany is by far the most strict of these three. I didn't pull this information out of my ass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
Funny how you link datasets that basically have zero correction whatsoever when actually analyzed. Ty for proving my point
Then put in the work and show you're correct with a dataset you trust.
You literally linked it. I'm not opening fucking excel for an internet argument with a troll
Then stop complaining over data sources that you can't be bothered to look at.
The issue still starts with people using guns to take lives (as this is the point of guns), so inevitably more guns will mean more deaths by guns. The correlation sort of implies a causality in any case. If you want to kill someone and you have access to a gun or a knife, you will use the gun.
And in doing so, you'll be able to kill a lot more people. A gun will almost always be able to kill more people than a knife.
Except this is verifiable bullshit, as you've been told numerous times. Increases in guns do not cause increases in homicide, nor does your gun grabbing bullshit reduce it.
It isn't bullshit:
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homicide-risk.html
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
Lmao funny how you have to cite bullshit from a known propaganda factory that intentionally ignores the overwhelming majority of data just to find the one place the stats line up in your favor.
It's Stanford...
For there being an "overwhelming majority of data" that supports your conclusion, you have yet to cite a single source. How strange.
I have, multiple fucking times, and all you do is dismiss them out of hand and try to pivot back to your constructed narrative, so why would I keep trying when you've overwhelmingly proven facts are irrelevant to your narrative?
If I am being honest, I don't remember the things you've cited in the past. I was talking about this thread.
You using slurs and getting banned for it has been way more memorable.
Of course you don't remember the facts that are inconvienient to the narrative you want to push. Because the only reason you're here is to push your worthless propaganda.
Nah, I just don't have the time/energy to remember some sitation from several weeks ago from somebody who uses slurs for fun. I have better things to remember.
Let me know when you have an actual argument for the gun debate.
Yeah, I figure keeping your dishonest campaign of lies in order does take a fair bit of your effort.
It doesn't, because I'm not being dishonest.
Lol
Murders spiked under Biden and I don’t care about th suicides. I only care about the murders.
So you don't cade about people dying? And you're proud of that?
Little troll. Did I say that? I was clear in what I said and you try to troll for attention.
Yeah, you did.
" I don’t care about th suicides"
Keep reading troll
I love how you make it obvious its about the tool and not the death. Its not about saving lives to you, you just want disarm them.
Complaining about gun deaths means I don't care about gun deaths? What?
I said deaths, not gun deaths.
I still have zero idea how you could have come to such a conclusion.
What I like is they always try to lump suicide in with murders.
I don’t think suicide should be illegal. People should be able to decide when to leave this world. I am in no way encouraging it but freedom means deciding how you live.
I am concerned with the murder rate which is mainly in democrat cities.
Do you have any evidence to support this?
Look at the top ten cities for murder. Can you name the republican city ?
You should support your claim, but I'll entertain to you:
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/53/
Dayton, OH is definitely Republican. Hella glad I moved away from that place. Otherwise, I have no idea. Being in the heart of Tennessee, Memphis is probably Republican?
In any case, most of those cities are in Republican states.
Those are all democrat cities. They’re run by democrats.
Okay, sure. I'll concede the point. They're cities run by Democrats. So what? You're concerned about these high murder rates? How? What concerns you about them?
That they’ll decide to leave the democrat cities and bring that crap to my town.
It also increases my taxes as I have to pay for state troopers to go into Portland to clean up the mess.