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[Chris Wheeler/Sami Mokbel] Casemiro and Raphael Varane are heading for Manchester United exits
(www.dailymail.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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Casemiro going from being over-priced questionable signing to essential part of the team to washed dead money back up has happened at a remarkable pace.
It’s happens sometimes when you spend big on older players. People like to think that top players all stay at peak level deep into their 30s but many do tail off fast.
No it doesn't
It happens with young players too
Rashfor goes from shit to world class regularly, AWB went from shit to essential to shit
Many other United players and other team players as well, why? Because fans have the memory of a gold fish and when team does bad they do this
What do you mean about AWB? He went from shit to essential and then has been injured, he's only just back
Speaking of Rashford, he only gives a shit when he wants a new contract lol
See another stupid comment with goldfish memory and just zero evidence
Rashford never gives a fuck, he sulked and didn't jump for headers last season any time i watched but he scored goals so your goldfish memory forgets that
He was much better last season - at times, the only other player with Bruno who was a consistent threat. This season, not so much.
Right, you complain about zero evidence and proceed to give zero evidence yourself. Come on.
Rashford’s a budget player who turns it on for 7 months when a contract is on the line. Xhaka grew as a player when his role was adapted to provide him better cover to make up for his lack of pace and somewhat questionable defensive instincts. Casemiro has just gotten old after being consistent forever.
Younger players who function better in one system or another or others who turn it on at pinch points in their career are not the same as older player going over the hill.
Rashford and AWB examples are fluctuations in form, an inherent lack of consistency, and/or fit with the manager's tactics and what the squad needs. This is different than an age-related decline in quality when a player hits a point where their experience and knowledge of the game is no longer able to make up for the loss of athleticism.
Outside of significant injuries, it's rare that a good player hits their peak in their early-mid 20s and can never get back to that. A lot will reach their potential and stop developing but they don't go backwards. That's why it's so surprising and attracts attention when it does happen, e.g. Dele.
Players in their mid 20s peak and fall off all the time we have thousands of examples, some players are just not that good and peak fall off season after season
Not every player in their mid 20s is consistent
Sure, you can find some, but thousands of examples? I think it's far more often the case that the players that look to have gotten worse really aren't, they are just being expected to play at a level beyond their abilities so they look bad. For example a player having a great season in the Championship, getting sold to a PL team and doing poorly most likely isn't receding from their peak, they were never a PL level player to begin with.
Everytime you mention someone over 30 might decline suddenly you are bombarded with people claiming that there’s “no way a professional like him” could decline and that sports science has gotten so advanced that it essentially trumps biology meaning there’s no reason players would decline one bit before they’re 36 at the earliest.
Players decline nobody ever denies that
Casemrio was great 4 months ago so was Varane
The difference is team doing bad so you say this, it's not about age it's more about team performance
I just gave an example of Xhaka, do u think prime Xhaka was worse than 30 year old Xhaka? Or was it fans scapegoating due to club performances
Prime Xhaka is now innit? He was mediocre for years and was a liability for a red card.
How many red cards has Xaka compared to Casemiro?
Xhaka has not declined yet. Nothing in my comment suggests that I think every player 30 or over has started to decline.
Your comment generalizes and says nothing of value
Nobody has ever said what you are saying you are just overexaggaratting, when both Casemiro and Varane were signed people quesioned it including like Carragher etc
Your point is awful, age matters yes but 3 months of bad performances doesn't mean 31 year old player is shit and has declined, what would happen if he is good next season? Does age not matter or is it just shit overall team performance by basically everyone
Yup! I remember getting attacked here for questioning the value of Casemiro at his age/price/contract cos who wants to believe that a player they like might decline soon. Was the same with Peresic who everyone assured me would be a wonderful wingback adapting to PL aged 33!!!
It’s a real minority who play deep into their 30s, handing out big contracts to such players should be done with real care and scrutiny unless you are a monopoly money club then whatever gamble away!
Perisic is our current best left winger. Last year was shit for everybody I don't think there was any evidence he declined noticeably.
Oh look another example
Last year Perisic legs gone this year he is good
Many people often also ignore the human element of this. They think footballers are robots like in their games of FIFA on PS5. There are so many examples of footballers losing their drive to stay at peak performance or who want to move onto other interests.
🎶Ohhh Thiago Silvaaaaaaa🎶
We know we got lucky.
You guys are a money-no-object club, you can absolutely afford to take the gambles and pocket the wins. United are having to budget carefully for FFP and they’ve blown a fortune on transfer fee/wages here!
I assume there is a /s here lol.
We signed Silva on a free...and we also stay within FFP by selling/loaning players.
Casemiro was never overpriced or questionable. He was valued exactly what he was worth and definitely one of the least questionable signings Manchester United has made.
Of course this was at the time of his signing.
It’s less than 18 months since they signed him for £60m and now he’s getting binned off and yet he’s not a questionable signing? Sure thing mate.
Don't think we'd have got top 4 without him. I'd imagine Champions League football is worth about that, even if we've crashed and burned in it.
A lot of the financial boost to getting CL football gets burned on player bonuses though
You’re speaking in retrospect while completely ignoring the fact that the dude just tried to clarify that he meant without retrospective knowledge.
He was one of our most important players, he was brilliant for all of last season.
I don't know what happened this season.
Lots of minutes with little to no rest due to no replacement and the team are pressing higher mean he is asked to press more intense than before. All combined to him rarely being fit for all 90 mins and wouldn't be in the position to defend counter as he and Ten Hag want
Ten Hag switched to an insane high press two-10s system leaving midfield even more exposed than before, leaving Case completely exposed having to do the work of two men. Then after Case misplaced one pass and we conceded he gets blamed for being shit when in reality it was the change to an unworkable system that practically doomed our early season results.
Thank you. Finally someone has some ball knowledge in this pathetic sub.
He was arguably our most important player last season.
Is he being binned off? Why are you so certain about trusting the Daily Mail?
You’re acting like the transfer is actually happening right now, not like you’ve read a story in a paper which routinely makes things up.
I don't think Casemiro is the issue. He was arguably the best CDM in the world when he signed. Granted, he was in a world class setup at Madrid where he had basically played his whole career.
But Casemiro as a player has been, overall, one of UTDs shining lights.
It's difficult to play your best when you're demotivated and man utd is a shambles
29 year old DM on mega wages from Madrid is definitely questionable. I can’t ever recall a time where Madrid have gotten the short end of the stick when getting rid of one of their big stars, that alone should’ve raised question marks. Madrid are very good at assessing the level of their players
Id say odegaard but that is with hindsight. He couldnt break into the first 11 at the time
He wasn’t a big star though
He was bright though, great with La real the year before.
Robben, Makelele, Sneijder and Ozil (to a slightly lesser degree) all performed at a world class level after leaving Madrid.
Casemiro signing was always questionable. Letting along the obscene amount of money on a 30 y/o, the guy is pretty much the opposite of every Ten Haag football idea: a slow midfield destroyer pretty poor with his feet for a manager who strives for possession and high pressing never made sense. They basically obliged him to switch to a transitional team
There 100% was questions whether £60 mil price tag and 4 year contract for a 30 year old DM on 350k a week was overpriced. A bit revisionist to pretend there weren’t question marks at the time
It is just bewildering to me how Man United continuously sign the same flavor of player over and over again, the experienced player who’s “good enough to hold up the Man United name”, they produce 1-2 seasons of good performances and then something happens and they’re out. Happens over and over again - here with Varane and Casemiro, then there’s Eriksen, Ronaldo, Cavani, Lukaku, Matic, Mkhitaryan, Ibra, Sanchez, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger.
Note, this isn’t a list of United transfer flops, of which there are a whole lot more, but a list of the same archetype not working over and over again. You could argue that some on these list recouped some money, or that they brought value for a couple of seasons in a certain way, but that’s not the point - for a team to rise back to the top, you need a concrete plan, and repeatedly signing players without the means to succeed long-term is the opposite of the stability that’s needed for a project. You can’t build a team up if your marquee signings all get crocked/fall out/become surplus/want to leave after 1-2 seasons - there’s just no project then, no concrete plan to get back to the top, and it’s back to square one with next manager.
Maybe because it has to do something with the club itself then???
You don't go from decade of world class to shit in a season or two.
I can't really believe it's happened. I was lucky enough to be invited to see the Carabao Cup final last season, which Man United won, and Casemiro was brilliant. You could tell his big-game experience shone through and he was cool, calm and composed throughout, the definite MOTM. How he's gone from that to not getting on the team sheet so quickly I don't quite get. I guess it's because they are trying to play a much more energy intensive style, and his game just doesn't suit it.
He's not getting in the team cause he got an injury keeping him out for 2 months. When fit he always plays.
Casemiro was an overpriced questionable signing precisely because of the worries of an impending drop off though?
It wasn't like people thought he was bad, it was that people thought he was likely to regress soon
Since when is he washed backup he’s injured