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this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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No Stupid Questions
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The movie is called Behind the Curve, and imo is a great move.
It doesn't try to ridicule the people in it. Instead it tries to make a point that if a group like the flat earth society is being made fun of rather than engaged in discussions, then the gap just gets larger and the problem worse. (If everyone else makes fun of you, you avoid them and stay in the community that supports you.)
As far as I can tell, Mark Sargent is still believing in those theories and continues doing his part in it. This doesn't surprise me, he's quite prominent in that community and I guess if he stopped, he'd lose quite a lot of his personal achievements, friends, hobbies, etc.
I don't know about the others who were in the movie, it would be interesting to know. Especially about those who were directly doing the experiments, yeah.
It tries to show that good faith engagement is better than ridicule, but in the end it shows that flat Earthers are so contrarian that they will actively ignore the results of their own experiments and engaging in good faith is pointless.
Basically, treat all humans with dignity. In psychiatry you're told to treat all patients with good faith, but don't let the guy who thinks he is Napoleon run the hospital.
By default all humans should be treated with dignity unless they are causing direct harm to others. Flat Earthers are kind of an edge case because their anti science and evidence approach is tied in with the antivax movement so they are harming others indirectly.
MAGA idiots, racists, and other hate filled people do not deserve dignity. In amedical setting, sure, but not in the real world where they are causing harm.
TIL hospitals aren't real guys!
Haha!
No, all humans should be treated with dignity always. We should do all in our power to stop and restraint those causing or intending to cause harm to others. But no crime justifies cruelty or indignity ever.
I guess then you start messing with the definition of dignity. I don't think it's very dignified to be restrained for one's fucked up views.
He doesn’t mean literally restrain line with chains or something. He means figuratively restrain
https://lemm.ee/comment/6002206
I know this is radical to you, but even criminals retain rights, even if they're convicted for their crimes. Even due process and right to legal defense is about preserving human dignity for all.
Wow yes, this is so radical! Thanks for exposing me to this thought, I thought everyone taken in by the police is just thrown into a deep pit, without food, sanitation or anything really, and just forgotten about.
I was talking about if I think of dignity, being taken in by law enforcement because my beliefs were literally so stupid as to make me dangerous to the general public if I was allowed to spout them any further, that would be very very far away from any dignity.
Obviously I was not talking about people not being allowed basic human necesseties or due process or anything like that.
You’re wrong.
Such deep argument, much ethics.
I don’t waste time in futile arguments. I just call them as I see them.
Cleaely you've ascended to a higher plane of argument
Nah uh
Are you serious? There’s a huge number of humans that deserve no dignity. Terrorists and paedophiles spring to mind but there are many many more.
Yes, I'm 100% serious, even terrorists and pedophiles deserve a minimum of human dignity. It's not about their morals. It's about mine and our collective societal moral principles. To deny another human being dignity, no matter how awful their actions might've been, says nothing about the other person's character, but speaks volumes about the person and society advocating indignity towards others. Yours is the logic that enables genocidal and discriminating abusive leaders.
Ok, then I have very different morals and character to you
I concur.
Think about this. The racist police officers who killed George Floyd had the exact same mindset that you do. They thought that they could treat him as less than human because he was a criminal. Fox news, yes, the MAGA channel, ran with a story that tried to justify his murder because he was a suspected criminal. How do you feel sharing moral values with them?
Fentanyl isn't a name of a white male cop.
That’s completely misrepresenting what I said. Don’t put words in my mouth. Suspected of a crime, then it should be proven beyond doubt and then punished. Guilty of bombing people, abusing kids? Don’t deserve any dignity in my opinion
Even the worst people imaginable are still people. They think, they feel, they experience, they are sentient.
The moment you begin to dehumanize people is the moment you've slipped past the point and when you become capable of truly horrific things.
Well said.
I’d also point out that dehumanising a subgroup is a powerful technique used to manipulate people. Tell people who to hate and you can get them to go along with anything while they’re focused on the scapegoats. Popular scapegoats include:
Any time someone is demonising a group theres a good chance they’re just trying to manipulate you.
So allow them to be free and commit truly immoral crimes? Because locking them up is not very dignified
You can separate offenders from the general population in dignified, humane ways.
There's a difference between humanely housing, feeding, treating, and overseeing people we may consider as bad actors and simply throwing them into a concrete box for the rest of their lives. There's also a difference between that and, say, torturing and maiming those same people as punishment.
The more you dehumanize the people that you may see as bad or unwanted, the easier it is for you to accept or even want the latter. I hope, in the future, you can see that empathy and dignified treatment of all people (not just 'the good ones') aren't such reprehensible ideas.
Oh, OK. A bunch of prison deputies would be so happy to hear that you support their sexual abuse of immates.
Keep making things up. Constructive discussion
What, suddenly you don't like the implications of your own moral values?
I agree there are people undeserving, but that doesn't change the fact that there are inalienable rights inherent to all people. If the state is going to legitimately enforce the law it must respect those rights while doing so.
"Don't let the horse run the hospital"
-John Mulaney
I didn't even know a horse could do that!
Why not, they are great at running.
Generally in most cases schizophrenia isn't catching whereas poisonous stupidity spreads. It's important to keep the disease from infecting too many new adherents. Think of humor as containment.
Unfortunately, the guy who thinks he's Napoleon usually does run the hospital and most other organizations.
My takeaway is there is something driving that contrarian attitude. We need to figure out how to address those underlying causes rather than exacerbating them through ostracization.
Really good documentary. I watched it while trying to engage over at reddit's AskTrumSupporters. It was interesting to see that community become more and more radicalized as the years went on, as the insane bullshit piled up. Helped me come to terms with the fact that engaging on that level is counter productive if anything.