this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 126 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (20 children)

Oh yeah we're gung-ho about our unions here in Sweden. Go IF Metall, fuck their shit up!

Edit: holy shit, it's for not having a kollektivavtal? Why is anyone even working there? Tesla isn't some mum and dad store, it's owned by the richest cunt in the world. There are specific instances where you can forego having a kollektivavtal, but Tesla definitely isn't one of those companies.

Edit2: So a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement, is generally a collection of agreements that worker unions, employers, and employer unions (like Svenskt Näringsliv) have agreed upon, which covers working conditions for your particular line of work. Things like salary negotiations, savings for retirement, remuneration for travel/extra work/graveyard shifts/on-call duty. Insurances in case you get hurt or sick because of your job. Personal/career development. Extra compensation during parental leave. Wellness allowances. The list goes on.

It's a lot, and it looks different depending on what you work with, and where you work. It ensures that the employee has certain guaranteed rights that should the employer withhold, you have legal recourse (usually the union will assist with this) should you need it. Naturally there's also laws backing workers up, so should there not be a kollektivavtal at your workplace, your employer still can't just break the law.

There's no law codified stating that an employer has to ever raise the employee's salary though, for example, so if you work at a place that doesn't have a kollektivavtal, expect to never see a pay bump.

There are of course situations where a kollektivavtal doesn't make any sense. For example, should you start a company and employ yourself a kollektivavtal is a bit overkill.

My first job lacked a kollektivavtal. It was a nice first step into my career, but it had a decent amount of turnover. Generally unless you have a very specific reason to not have one, not having a kollektivavtal is seen kind of as a red flag. Either you're the world's most trustworthy employer (yeah right) or you're up to some real fucking shady shit.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Never actually worked at a place with a collective agreement... But then again AFAIK they aren't that common within software or gamedev...

(Edit: still part of a union though)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

Pretty common in software these days. TechSverige being the biggest one. Gamedev tends to fall under "up to shady shit" though, a most lucrative industry that offers shit pay is a load of BS.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

How are you in a union that doesn't have a collective bargaining agreement? Like how does that even work?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Technically it does have collective agreements just not with the company I work for.

A union, at least in Sweden, isn't tied to a place of work so me working somewhere they don't have a collective agreement isn't that odd. Now it does mean I don't get as much out of my membership but I still do gain some things. Like if my employer screws me over the union is there to help me and fight for me in court if need be. There are also some extra protections like if there is a layoff the company will need to negotiate and justify why I, or anyone else in my union, should be the one to loose their job.

[–] Tar_alcaran 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's very possible to be in an overarching group. The Netherlands, for example, has two really huge union-federations. You can join them even when they don't have a collective bargaining agreement for your profession. That means you still get legal aid in conflicts with your employer, for example.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Your workplace can choose to have a collective agreement or not. It doesn't affect whether individual employees are unionised or not.

My first workplace did not have a kollektivavtal. Nothing in our contract said anything about negotiating salaries, meaning you might never see a salary increase (I didn't for the three years I worked there, knew someone who worked there seven years and only saw it once), it basically just complied with Swedish worker laws.

I was in a union, because unions are still useful for e.g. personal development, career advice, legal help, etc. You can be self-employed and be in a union, unions can offer assistance and guidance for self-employed people too.

The argument I see against collective agreements here is that they're "inflexible" and "not easy to apply to small companies" but I've yet to ever read a concrete example of this, so my personal belief is that it's utter bunk. Like I mentioned elsewhere, there are times where not having one can sort of make sense; when you're self-employed, and in a scenario where your contract covers all bases you want it to and you're content not having a kollektivavtal. For example, if you have an incredible salary and you don't ever care to negotiate about it (assuming there's no clause in the contract about it)

If it's a normal workplace, you should have a kollektivavtal. It's common sense.

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