this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
450 points (98.1% liked)
Asklemmy
43336 readers
773 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The other guy wisely decided not to comment, but as they say, fools rush in. This is a tough topic to navigate, because the "nice guy" label now mostly applies to those self-proclaimed Nice Guys(tm) who act entitled and turn nasty when women turn them down.
I have had the same experience that OP had. I thought, based on what adults told me, that the proper way was to follow that other infamous dating advice, to "be yourself," live my life, treat everybody with basic respect and kindness, and that would be enough: Of all the women I fancied, I would meet one who fancied me back, and we'd start a relationship. It's not an unreasonable idea, and to be fair, it happened that way for me once, which lent credence to the idea.
I believe that's what OP meant when he said "women are attracted to nice guys." That's certainly the message I got as a young man, and it was wrong.
The problem is that "women are attracted to nice guys" implies that "being nice" itself is "enough" to be attractive. Guys get this idea that all they have to bring to the table is "I'm not a jerk" and the ladies will fall into their laps. The problem is, the jerk down the road is in better shape, has interesting hobbies, and/or has a real, dependable job. Being "nice" is like having two slices of bread and saying you have a sandwich. If you don't put anything between the bread slices, everyone's going to opt to order the burrito instead because it's got an actual filling.
Glad you said it, so I don't have to. The harsh truth that straight men need to hear is that for most of us, nobody will ever love us for who we are. We're nothing but mammals, and mating is a competition.
Why do you think that is different for women?
I don't.
This sounds like people are bummed out that they need to put in effort and aren't just cherished and loved for simply existing in the relationship. But that is true for everyone, not just for men.
I actually think it's just a relatively new concept for straight men because in the past (and that's still in our culture) women needed a man. And therefore it was enough to exist as a guy and not be a jerk to "get" a woman.
I think the issue is that that's literally what we're told by well-meaning parents and authority figures: "Just be yourself," or "just be confident." It's also the cultural message that we get about how we're supposed to treat our partners.
I also think these are platitudes. In reality, no one is allowed to be "just themselves". But changing yourself to be more likeable (especially in social situations) is such a conflicted topic.
At least in western cultures agreeableness has a bad reputation and is not encouraged in boys, imho. As a girl you are raised to be agreeable and it is called "nice". I believe men and women have a different understanding what that means because of how we are raised differently.
In my experience some men seem to think nice means basically to avoid conflict and be especially generous (not necessary in a materialistic way, also offering help etc.).
While for women it means to be sensible to your partners feelings and plan accordingly.
These are two notoriously incompatible modi operandi: a "yes man" who hides or doesn't reflect on his feelings and wishes. And an increasingly controlling woman, constantly guessing and overinterpreting what their partner could possibly "really" be thinking.
A lot of women would rather choose a partner who is less work. Even when that means he isn't as generous. Therefore "just be yourself / confident" has a grain of truth in it. Just not in the way people might think. Another truth I had to grow quite old for to understand.