this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
480 points (93.5% liked)
Asklemmy
43989 readers
641 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't think your point stands at all.
If you're asking how someone is supposed to know without knowing then the answer is you can't. Obviously.
You looked at biased reviews that had clearly not tested the product in the manner of which you wanted to use it. You made a bad purchase. I'm sorry. But that's not the fault of Bluetooth. That's the fault of Sony.
Are you going to claim that smartphones are hot garbage just because Nokia made a really shitty one? They were a reputable phone brand too. Until they weren't. Maybe you just learned that the hard way with Sony.
The thing is, it's not just me/Sony. There's been several reports of similar sort of issues for wireless headphones in general.
And in comparison, there's very little issues with wired, so my point still stands - wireless audio still has issues - I don't care if it's a fault with Bluetooth or an implementation bug on the headphones or the app or the OS, the point is, there are still issues that you may be unaware of when buying a wireless headphones, when there's next to none with wired.
You're quick to blame Sony, but if you can't trust a reputable Japanese brand who've been making audio equipment for over 70 years now, who can you trust? Afterall, reviews are "biased" and can't be trusted, so I guess it's down to pure luck then, right? And even if you get lucky and think you've made a good buy, there's no guarantee that something won't break with a future update. For instance, here's a thread where someone's mic stopped working after a Windows update - turns out that the fault was with the Intel Bluetooth drivers, and downgrading the drivers or the update fixes it. Who wants to put up with this sort of nonsense when you've got a meeting or an interview to attend to, and suddenly you find your headphones no longer work because of a fricking update?
This sort of unreliability is precisely why many people prefer sticking to the tried and trusted wired headphones.
Your argument is irrational. So because Ford makes terrible quality cars all cars are bad? I mean. If we can't trust the company that made the first industrially made car, then who can we trust? After all, there's so very little that can go wrong with a bicycle or ones own legs.
I talked about Sony because YOU said you had problem with them. Where you admit that you bought it very close after launch where not many reviews had come out.
You think wired headsets can't get fucked by faulty drivers? Have you ever had an issue with your audio drivers as a whole? I have. Doesn't matter if you use wired or wireless then.
I'm telling you point blank. There are good products where it works seemless between different devices. But you just won't have it cause you had a bad experience once with a poor purchase from your end.
If you wanna use wired by my guest. More products on the shelf for me. But your stance against Bluetooth as a whole is ridiculous. Shall we say wired headsets are garbage because what it the wire gets damaged? Man cable close to the the male connection always end up breaking! Terribly unreliable!
In all my life I've never had a problem with wired headset not working due to driver issues. Sure there were the occasional overall sound card issues, but those were dating back to the Windows 9x days. Also, theoretically and statistically speaking, a wireless setup has more parts and more complexities, so it's more likely to fail.
Citation needed. And I repeat my previous question - how exactly is one supposed to discover these set of devices? What if you say use a particular model of Thinkpad and the device wasn't tested against it? I doubt there exists a database somewhere that has list of every wireless headset tested against every Bluetooth capable device. So ultimately it's up to the luck of draw, and that's not a very good user experience. Whereas with wired, I can he 100% sure a wired headset will work if a device has the matching aux jack.
Also, the wire getting damaged isn't really a problem, any decent wired headset would have a replaceable wire, so you can always swap it out with any standard TRS/TRRS cable and you're good to go. Whereas with wireless, the battery is almost guaranteed to degrade after a few years, and it can be really hard or even impossible to replace, depending on the model.
Aha... so now that it comes to wired, the "how are you supposed to know" doesn't apply anymore?
You bought a shitty wireless and use that to hate on the entire protocol.
I've bought bad wired ones where the wire breaks easily, but the same logic doesn't seem to apply there for you.
Any decent wired headset has easily replaceable cables?
Any decent wireless won't have the problems you've mentioned. And the battery is not going to be a problem for many many years. My boss ones are on their fourth year. Still get out 7-8 hours of non stop usage which is more than enough for me.
But sure. They do degrade. That's factually true and inevitable. It's part of the price for the convenience of not having to deal with a cable.
But you hit the nail on the head yourself. "Any decent headset". Same thing can be applied to wired, as wireless. Buy decent products and you won't have issues.
"How are you supposed to know" goes for both too. You can't tailor your argument to only work for one type and ignore it for the other.
The WH-1000XM5 isn't a shitty wireless headphone, it has issues but I wouldn't call it shitty. If it really was that shitty then it wouldn't have a positive rating on sites like Amazon, WhatHiFi, Soundguys etc. In saying that, I do consider it worse than a wired headphone, but that I believe is because of the limitations of current wireless technology. Thankfully it also has a wired mode which works fine, and the ANC works well too, so it's not completely useless to the point that I'd call it "shitty". It certainly is flawed, and annoying at times.
That's because wires are cheap and easy to repair or replace. What will you do when a wireless headphones breaks or doesn't work as intended? The only realistic option is to replace it, which will either create more e-waste, or just be a PITA in general, trying to find another headphones that work.
Of course. I'm not taking about those cheapo $2 headsets that you'd find in a dollar store.
But mine did though, and also, lithium batteries degrade over time, and that is an undeniable fact. It's also an undeniable fact that it's extremely difficult or even next to impossible to replace the battery on most of these headphones.
Good for you, but that's not enough for me. Every now and then I take a 16+ hour flight (with maybe a 6-10 hr halt), so that battery life isn't going to cut it. And with most of these headphones, you can't use them while charging either.
And my original point still stands. How exactly is one supposed to figure out what's a decent wireless headset? The WH-1000XM5 is still rated very highly on pretty much every website. By all definitions, it's supposed to be a decent headset. If you've got some sort of secret website or method to determine if a headset is decent or not, I'm all ears.
Not really, because my experience is primarily with wired headphones, so I've already got a winning formula for selecting decent wired headphones - the ones which have a replaceable wire are decent, anything beyond that would be nitpicking on the audio quality like audiophiles do, or minor things like ear fit and noise isolation etc - but all that would boil down to personal preference. On the other hand, I don't have a working formula for picking decent wireless headphones, so if you do, please share.
You're so irrationally upset about this that you can't even see how you contradict yourself in your essays.
And why are you quoting me, quoting you?
It's clearly not very decent then if you have those problems.
Your personal lack of knowledge and experience in other fields is not an argument against anything. We get it. YOU don't like wireless because YOU had a bad experience. That's ok. But why you seem to think your lack of knowledge is somehow an argument against wireless=bad is unclear to me.
I do this cool thing where I go to my store. And I ask to try the headset I'm interested in. I get personal hands on experience. I connect it to my phone, and to my watch. And I see how it handles two connections at the same time. It's not rocket science.
Yeah, that's not really an option where I live (New Zealand). We have very limited choices of both physical stores, as well as models available. In my case, the WH-1000XM5 wasn't available in any physical stores when I bought it, also, I ordered it online directly from Sony (another reason for ordering direct from Sony is I get a discount thru my company).
That sounds like a giant. You problem. And not a wireless problem.
How is simply living in my country a "me" problem? Also, the fact remains that wireless headsets in general have way more problems compared to wired, and that has nothing to do with me.
No. It just means you have more problems with purchasing wireless products. How many people live in New Zealand? 5 million? So wireless headsets are bad, because 5 million kiwis can't go to a store and try them. Is that your reasoning?
What are these way more problems? You've listed 2.
Bad wireless connection Batteries can run out.
Wired headsets can have Bad wires or bad male/female connectors too so not really an exclusive problem.
But sure. Batteries CAN run out. Good thing most decent wireless headsets also come with a wired option.
This doesn't make them generally worse. It just makes them worse for YOU. Because you're a kiwi who can't go to a Playtech store or something.
It's not just me, it's the technology in general.
As I said before this isn't really an issue as you can easily replace the wire, but more than anything, it's extremely unlikely that there would be a bad wire/connector on a brand new headset.
Let's go over this once and for all. Because I'm sick of having to repeat myself.
Wireless interfere and other connectivity/pairing issues can be summed up into 1 complaints.
I have had a pair of Jabra earplugs and boss headphones combined for over 7 years now.
Not once have i ever experienced connectivity issues while paired. I have had problems pairing to certain phones. But since that was specific to that phone. I'm not exactly going to blame the earplugs.
That sounds very specific to certain headsets or earplugs. It's a product issue. Not a Bluetooth issue. As mentioned many times. My headset does it seamlessly between devices. It's not a problem if you buy a good pair of headsets/earplugs.
That could probably be the case sometimes. Most likely won't last very long if you report the problem.
My jabras are going strong despite being almost 7 years old. They easily last an entire day of normal use. But yes battery do degrade. That's part of the price you pay for the convenience of not needing a wire. Maybe I'll have to replace them once they hit the 10 year mark. But I'm OK with that. Sounds worth it to me.
That is very personal don't you think? These days remembering to charge things is as easy as remembering to put them in their place. An organized person will have little trouble putting things in the same place once they are done with them.
I can't replace a wire on my wired headset to my computer. Would have to open them up (somehow while not breaking them) and re-soldier a new cable and THAT is a real hassle. Gonna have to buy a soldiering iron too. Probably best for most to let a repair shop do it then. Same as a battery replacement.
That's just anecdotal, that doesn't mean that other products or other users haven't had any issues.
As I mentioned before, I don't care that whether it's a "Bluetooth" isssue or not, it's a common issue experienced with that class of devices. The point is, the issue exists, whether or not it's a fault of the actual Bluetooth protocol isn't the point here.
Again, anecdotal. I highly doubt that your battery would last for 10 years (and still have any useful capacity), which would be going against the well established averages for lithium ion. Many popular wireless earbuds, such as the Apple Airpods, have a lifespan of only 2-3 years.
The fact is that most wireless headsets will turn into e-waste - and dangerous e-waste at that - in a much, much shorter time frame compared to wired. That does not sound okay to me.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/your-wireless-earbuds-are-trash-eventually/
And yet, it's still an additional activity that one may not want to engage in. It's a pretty common complaint, so it's not as personal as you think. Lots of people avoid wireless products for this reason alone.
And as I said before, any decent headset will have a replaceable wire. But even if you can't replace or repair the wire yourself, it's typically not an issue for a repair shop to do it, and it's pretty cheap too. Whereas it may not be that straightforward or cheap to replace a built-in battery - for starters, your repair shop may not even have the battery in stock (especially if it's a 7+ year old, not super-popular model), assuming someone even makes a replacement battery, you'll need the shop to order it in, which can take a long time, considering most airlines prohibit shipping loose batteries in cargo - which means that the battery will need to be shipped by land and/or sea. And even then, it doesn't solve the e-waste problem.
You're really just repeating the same fallacy over and over. If you go to a bakery to buy bread, and then didn't like the bread.
Are you going to blame it on bread in general. Or are you going to blame the baker?
What you're doing here, is blaming the bread for being bread, competed ignoring the fact that the baker simply doesn't know what he's doing.
Any argument I put forth you simply refuse to accept. And it's amazing to me, that you who doesn't prefer to use wireless. Have such a vast experience with them that you can speak in general terms for all of them.
Your bad purchase does not reflect the entire category.
Apple using low battery life on their product does not reflect on the entire category.
Their apple watch has battery that last for 1 day. My Samsung galaxy watch lasts for 5 days
You complain they don't have battery. I tell you that is not really the case, good earplugs can last for many years. But you simply refuse to accept that, citing a different brand?
The amount of wired earplugs that lay on the landfills VASTLY outnumber wireless earplugs.
You don't like wireless because you're stuck 10 years in the past and can't get over that it has progressed a lot. Citing your bad purchase as proof. You ask how to know what to buy. I tell you how. And you refuse it.
I like wireless because I have good products that work incredibly well without issues with wonderful features that is not only convenient, but makes my life easier.
There is not a single wired product that can do what my jabras allow. And that's a fact.
If wireless are so generally bad as you think. Why do everyone use them? If they were so bad as you think. Wouldn't everyone be fed up? The answer is simple. You're stuck in a personal grudge where any argument for them will be brushed off by you as not representative of wireless as a whole. Or you simply refuse to even believe it.
Yes. My jabras really are that old. Yes, their battery is still that good. Despite you believing it or not. You citing apple airpods is irrelevant. They have a short lifespan. So I don't buy them. Because I don't like to buy bad products. It really is that simple.
And neither does gone one good purchase reflect upon the entire category.
The fact that lithium-ion batteries aren't good after 3 years is well established, there are many articles on this from reputed sources. It's not something I made up.
I'm not refusing it, it's merely not an option for me, given where I live.
They don't actually. Check my poll results, check any other polls - you'll see that majority of the users still prefer wired.
It's not, because they have the majority of the market share, and are therefore representative of the market, and their battery life is well documented. Your experience with Jabra is anecdotal with nothing to back it up. Therefore, your single good experience with Jabars is just as meaningless as my single bad experience with Sony.
Do I now? Because whenever I'm outside. I see people with wireless earbuds. I see wireless headphones. But you know what I almost never see? Wired headphones.
The fact my jabras have more than enough battery for that to not be noticeable after 7 years makes it irrelevant.
And yes, you citing apple IS irrelevant because you're doing it as a response to my success with Jabra earbuds. You're using them as some kind of argument against why me having good products that are working well doesn't actually matter.
With your logic. Wired headphones suck because the 30 dollar pair I bought once were really bad. So therefore they're all bad, and any good wired headphone you can mention. Is just an outliner that doesn't reflect wired headphones as a whole. Because the majority of wired headphones are cheap garbage.
I'm sorry, that I have really good Bluetooth wireless headphones and earbuds. It must truly shatter your world since you try to put so much effort into discrediting me for telling you they exist.
If you want good wireless products, that doesn't have the problems you've mentioned. They exist. You can buy them.
If you want earbuds that last for more than 3 years. Don't buy apple.
I know your argument are shit, Because I'm sitting on the actual evidence and proof that your descriptions are not accurate. I'm telling you they work. And your response is "but these other things didn't work!" So? Don't get those other things then.
There are millions of bad wired headphones. But I assume, you don't buy those. You buy the good ones. Apply the same logic to wireless. And you won't have the problems mentioned.
Please wash off your makeup. White and red is not a good look on anyone.
Again, that's just anecdotal. Show me an actual survey or some real statistics which says that users prefer wired over wireless.
The fact that you don't have any evidence to show it is irrelevant.
It isn't, because Apple earbuds are a market leader and their battery life is well documented. Show me some evidence that Jabra earbuds are good even after 7 years, and I'll accept it as relevant.
If that's your logic then by my logic all wireless headphones are bad because of my experience.
So is your experience with Jabra.
Actually it doesn't, because you haven't provided any evidence. A claim of a 7 year battery life on a frequently used lithium-ion battery in a device such as a headset, when the industry average is 2-3 years, is utterly ridiculous and unbelievable.
It's not worth arguing with @atomic Apparently my pixel, with pixel buds and watch with wearos is also a software issue. As if the software issue might not lie within the software that drives the Bluetooth protocol, I. E. Bluetooth itself🙄