this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
6 points (54.3% liked)
World News
32291 readers
1374 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It would be up to the people who live there to figure out how to run things. This is certainly not an argument for US to continue occupying them.
how is it an “occupation” when Hawaiians themselves voted to become a state by a 94+% majority?
The choice was to become a state or remain a territory. Either yes or no would have had Hawaiian peoples occupied. Statehood could be seen as a regaining a scrap of self determination but all it ended up doing was impoverishing the natives and ceding all wealth to colonizing capitalists. This is a primarily function of bourgeois democracy.
by voting to become a state - especially to such an overwhelming majority - you can hardly argue a dispositive attitude towards the US being there or towards joining the union. so, not only have you moved the goalposts, you’re arguing a straw man and your own emotions.
I’m sticking with provable facts.
Once again they were given a choice between becoming a state or remaining a territory. Not for independence. It'd be like offering a scrap of bread to a starving man in exchange for the man legitimizing your ability to keep him malnourished.
The ole adage of "the only thing worse than being exploited is not being exploited " comes to mind.
Since you can't be assed to read your own damn wiki article I assume you're just in bad faith.
Hawaiians could have protested, revolted, or one of many other options. But they didn’t.
That’s the thing about facts— your opinions don’t magically make them untrue, regardless of how many folksy sayings or logical fallacies you conjure.
🐷 💩 🥎
Lol your mind sure is something.
spoiler
Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement which began actively protesting and gained support in the 1960s, pretty soon after the referendum?
sure. why not? people can object to or protest anything.
the fee expression of speech in a democratic forum, however, certainly argues against any of this being “fascist”, though. thanks of pointing this out!
Should I kill you with my sword or with my gun?
Sorry, "I want to live" was not an option on the ballot
sigh…
Referendum is literally: "Would you like to be a state or a territory? Independence is not an option."
Sigh...
your lack of ability to imagine another option (such as revolt, etc.) does not mean you “win” the argument. it just means you lose because you lack imagination.
YOUR ARGUMENT is that the result of this referendum matters. It doesn't because, as you've identified, both options are the same. As for Hawaiian resistance, they've been fighting continuously for a hundred years and, like every other liberation movement against the USA, have been ruthlessly suppressed by the fascist police and petty-bourgeoise militia of the "middle class". And, like every other liberation struggle, victory is inevitable as the empire continues to crumble beneath the weight of its sins.
Also, neat how you've got five devoted followers upvoting you within two minutes on every one of your shitty empire-shilling posts for the last several hours
The FACTS bear that out. you’re attacking me because I pointed that out.
I didn’t say that, you did. keep your words out of my mouth.
relevant to the argument, and a
you guys are addicted to logical fallacies
cute story. also irrelevant
jealousy is an ugly look
Yeah I've seen at least two of this dork's alts posting the same dumb infographics of logical fallacies that they themselves are committing without a hint of irony.
from your own link
If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.
Person is in bad faith and worse smug, hit em with a PPB.
that it does, and you have failed to prove otherwise despite quoting a block f text you clearly don’t understand— OR are intentionally misrepresenting, hoping everyone else here is too stupid to realize you’re trying to pull a fast one on them.
Fortunately, I’m not the idiot you think I am.
only because you’ve moved the goalposts when you couldn’t win that argument with facts.
the people always ave that choice. they can protest, revolt, etc. Did the Bolsheviks just ask the Tsars to pretty please step aside?
I’m not the one ignoring facts, employing logical fallacies and hurling personal insults when I don’t “win” online arguments.
can’t argue with facts, so playskool insults it is. classy. no wonder I see he molding full of you getting posts and comments removed, and you’re totally banned form lemmy.world.
also explains this post https://lemmy.ml/post/2756876
I didn't move any goal posts. I said Hawaii is an occupied territory, and you came back with BuT ThEy HaD a RefErEnduM. Forgetting to mention that the referendum wasn't actually about independence and that the people of Hawaii were never given a choice of independence by their occupiers.
There is no false dichotomy here. It's hilarious seeing your comment history where you communicate through memes like a 5 year old child.
People in Hawaii are revolting against your regime as we speak.
The facts are that you made false claim and now you don't even have the decency to admit it. No point having further discussion with a liar.
love living rent free in your collective heads
“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.
see my previous reply
a handful of protesters is hardly a “revolt”, but you’re adorable for thinking “big”.
the last thing you have is a grasp on the facts. your comment an post history are proof enough of that, with a long history of bans, deleted comments, and verbally being drummed you of most places you visit or being a toxic mess.
how sad for you
Amazing that @[email protected], who is also a fan of those weird debate fallacy images, posted this in another thread today:
Also this, also from today:
You also posted that second one, verbatim, this afternoon as @[email protected].
You're the same person, aren't you?
Edit: Lol you even responded to an argument in this thread while still logged in to @[email protected], then deleted it because someone noticed.
lol i was just about to mention this
http://lemmy.ml/u/bauhaus
is clearly part of the same group of alt accounts.
@[email protected] @[email protected] Check this out lmao. I don't think all the traffic going to that threat of haters is organic man
it’s not amazing that I can copy and paste images I see in other comment threads. especially when they work well… I even say that’s what I did in several comments.
it’s sad that, rather than seeing that you’re wrong, you invent conspiracies, lmao. you’re not that important
No one's buying it, you know that, right?
Whhaaaa??? you mean to say that a brigading band of angry trolls from two of the most toxic instances in the fediverse remain unconvinced by facts and logic??? GASP!!
No, I'm talking about the one angry troll pretending to be six different people who is being toxic in this thread.
That's you, since you seem to have trouble understanding things that aren't spelled out for you (or for that matter, things that are).
You're committing a strawman fallacy, or a false equivalence, or a false dichotomy, whatever, take your pick. You don't know the difference, anyway.
right, because the only way some could disagree with or object to a brigade of angry trolls from hexbear is because of some “conspiracy” you can’t prove.
lol
“I know you are but what am I?” doesn’t make a convincing argument. most people learn that when they’re 5.
yo, hit me an infographic for the 'ligma' fallacy if you have one.