this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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Oh yeah. So i cant ask for one thing and not do another. Classic bad faith argument. Good try.
I'm not even trying to argue against you, I'm arguing for veganism. The same arguments that you used for why the use of AI is bad can be used for why not being vegan is bad. The production of animal products even has a way bigger impact.
In that case i very much suggest a different approach.
"If that is your take, you will love veganism."
Btw, i dont eat animal products. Pretty recently too.
Veganism is frequently a cult.
It is not. Eating meat is actually a torture and murder industry and people who eat meat are actually eating pieces of corpses.
Even when I still ate meat, I could understand that morally there is no difference to eating humans.
No need to argue here.
Not only that.... The meat industry is poisoning the animals with antibiotics, GMO cereals... they live in 1m2 of space/cow, and living in hell 24/24, feel anger, hate, sadness and treated like shit and pure pain while beaten by humans... It's horrible !!
And all these things are digested by our body... Ugh ! It's similar to a concentration camp but for animals...
I could see an argument against industry standards on meat production, but the base argument of veganism is flawed when all these things you list do not occur. And yes, veganism is frequently a cult in my experience. They tend to surround of themselves, assure themselves to each other and avoid discussion of their mindset. AAMOF I was turned off to discuss here, but as I randomly got to know I'm being downvoted, I will engage.
But they all do occur.
It's, again, that categorical mindset of veganism, as they divide the world into them and the others. While they all do occur, that doesn't mean it always occurs everywhere. And yes, eating meat sometimes involves suffering, but that's not the same as torture.
So is killing the top ape in your troop so you get his harem. So is eating the babies of the former troop leader so you free up the female apes to care for your offspring instead of his. Nature is a hellhole and more importantly, isn't a deity or even a conscious being. It has no morals, nor a will, nor any opinions on how living things should act.
If you're going to enjoy the comfort of modern technology, especially modern food production technology, the "nature" argument is not applicable because none of the food you eat is remotely natural. You're welcome to sharpen a stick with your teeth and use your real human hunting skills to get your meat, i.e. chasing down wild animals until they die from exhaustion. Better hope that wild bull with razor sharp horns that weighs three times more than you doesn't figure out that they can just turn around and attack you head on, because hunting large animals is lethal to the hunter almost as often as it's lethal for prey. You also better not use any antibiotics if your hunt leaves you wounded, because animals getting slowly and horrifically killed by bacterial infection is natural and occurs whether you and I exist or not. Microbes are your only real predator so you better respect that.
Typical vegan mindset, categorical for everything. Since taxa is the same for you no matter the level, hey, why do you eat your brothers fungi, herbs and tree babies? Are you some kind of a cannibal?
I'm not even vegan lol, strongly considering it though and you're helping :)
Do you not know what cannibal means? It's not a general purpose insult for people with dietary choices you don't like, it actually has a definition and it's not an animal eating plants and fungi. If you're going to resort to name calling, at least make the effort to come up with a clever zinger or something.
But if you care about plant lives so much, you should in fact be vegan. Feeding animals to kill and eat requires 10x more plants than just eating the plants yourself. It would also dramatically reduce the amount of farmland required to support humanity, meaning literally more space on the planet for more natural forests and grasslands that contribute to the ecosystem.
Finally, you thought I was talking about chimps or something and not humans? You don't think prehistoric humans when they first became their own species, before the idea of a society or even a tribe developed, lived in social structures similar to the other very closely related ape species that we literally split off from? Even something like a hunter gatherer tribe is still a fairly complex society that needed time to develop. What were we doing before that? We were all chilling in the savannah with absolutely no conflicts between members of our species? Even within complex societies, fighting and killing your way to the top was the norm for the vast majority of human history.
You should become a vegan. More power to you.
I do care for plants and the planet, but seeing the world become vegan is an army of unicorns, and not even an option, in my opinion. I know what an ape is, I know not all apes behave like you described and I know what a cannibal is.
Ultimately, I'll eat whatever I can and whatever I'm comfortable eating. Don't come calling me a "murderer", an "immoral", or a "torturer", that's just toxic.
Just because things are natural doesn't mean you can't apply reason. Anything that'll end up killing ourselves, in the greater picture, is petty stupid, especially if it only provides short term comfort we easily can do without.
Greenpeace isnt even mainly focused on meat production afaik so no idea where you got that from but its not from then that we get information. You can see this on state tv. I dont know what your point is but i dont think you can prove that.
I know that logical thinking is optional but please go touch grass. Reported.
Greenpeace-like, in the sense of the methods. Oh, come on, my message was deleted but I'm happy it remains cited by you. You don't deserve less. That guy above calls everyone nonvegan a "murderer", a "torturer" and "amoral", but you are offended by my message?
There you have it. Changed my comment to not include your text.
You really need help. Not because i hate your or something but because you would profit from a coherent thought framework that helps you think logically without the need for constant violence.
Good luck
What a condescending comment. Even if you hated me, that's not enough to tell anybody they need nothing without knowing them thoroughly. They used loaded language as soon as I suggested that veganism is frequently a source of cultist behavior. The irony here is using loaded terms as "murder" and "torture" is actually violent.
Literally any lifestyle can become a cult. The presence of vegan cults is because veganism is more popular than ever so evil people exploit that to form cults. There are fitness cults too, does that mean everyone who works out is a cult member?
I assume you know what "frequently" means. Otherwise, do these lifestyles classify people in categorical terms as vegan/meateaters or morally right and wrong?