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this post was submitted on 20 May 2025
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No one said it was fine that Harris supported Israel.
What we all said was there are only two candidates who could win the election, and they both support the genocide. We condemned the one-sided criticism, not the facts.
Since we are in a post election situation, by constantly scape goating voters, you are doing one sided criticism.
Trump helps genocide and he is a bad guy, Biden and Harris help genocide but the voters should have accepted it essentially.
If we refuse to hold the dems accountable for their actions which directly led to Trump winning, they will plot the same course for the next election.
Yes, that's the idea. No centrist wants to stop the genocide. It's not like it's something centrists do want to stop, like raising the minimum wage or universal healthcare or cannabis legalization or anything they run on.
Am I? More people voted against Trump than for him. If the third-party voters accepted that they can’t change the rigged system by voting third-party, Harris would’ve won.
If the dems had catered to voters instead of kneeling in front of a foreign apartheid state and its genocide, Harris would have won.
Politicians can choose what they represent and the platform they put forward. I don't want to have to vote for genocide so democracy can live again, I want the dems to drop their pro-genocide stance. Blaming voters is the opposite of asking for change.
Be glad those third parties exist. Those people would have spite voted for Trump instead, not for Harris.
At least they’d be forced to own their complicity instead of hiding behind a pointless action.
At the moment of voting there was only one choice which had been complicit in genocide up to that point.
Are you for real?
Trump repealed restrictions on Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory. Netanyahu was so grateful, he named a settlement after him in occupied Golan Heights. He also said Israel needs to “finish the job” and stop recording their atrocities because they’re “losing the PR war.”
What a shock that liberals care more about what Trump says than what Biden did. The Democrats fully supported Isreal "finishing the job," but you only care about it when Trump says it.
A lot of good your moral superiority is doing for the Palestinians now, huh? Upgrading the 5-ton bombs to 10-tonners, with plans to pave over the West Bank for a billionaire resort.
You really think that would’ve happened under Harris? Get real.
Also, I don’t know what liberals you’re referring to. I’m a progressive.
It's telling that you only care about symbolic bullshit like this, almost like you only care about finding moral liscense to support genocide. Isreal had all the bomb it needed under Biden; his symbolic restrictions saved exactly ZERO Palestinian lives. But you don't care about Palestinian lives, you care about symbolic acts.
Those plans were there under Biden too, you just are only willing to admit it when it's Trump doing that. In that sense, Biden was even worse; because liberals like you are genocide deniers when it's your team doing it.
Yes, 100% it would, genocide denier. The only thing that would have been different under Harris is that you would have pretended it wasn't happening, and the US would still be massacring Yemeni on behalf of Isreal.
Progressives don't support genocidal fascists.
Who said I support genocidal fascists? You’re the one who threw their vote out instead of stopping the election of the genocidal fascist. I voted for the genocidal liberal, because I understand the concept of the lesser of two evils, and know how to leverage what little say I have in this horribly corrupt and broken system.
You did.
And you actively voted for the election of genocidal fascists. And you have no idea where I live or who I voted for, so shut your lying mouth.
Centrism is when your number one policy goal is the wholesale extermination of an entire population to expand a genocidal, fascist, ethnostate.
You clearly don't, given that you only care about symbolic gestures that make you feel good, and your willing to delude yourself that the Democrats are better on Israel. You're having to actively rewrite history to make reality bend ot what you want the lesser evil to be.
Oh? And what has that accomplished? Oh, absolutely nothing? I guess you don't know how to leverage it.
You know, a serious person who claims to believe that a country is irredeemably genocidal, horribly corrupt, and broken, would conclude that the lesser evil is whatever will cause the collapse of that country the fastest. Yet you've decided that the highest priority is maintaining the US's ability to terrorize and murder the globe.
As I’ve explained elsewhere in this post, unless you want to abolish private ownership of the means of production, you’re probably a liberal. The vast majority of both Democrats and Republicans are liberals. Progressive liberals like Bernie Sanders are still liberals. Sanders will say that It’s OK to Be Angry About Capitalism, and he’ll complain about crony capitalism and über capitalism, but he’ll never question capitalism as such. He’ll never question private ownership of the means of production, in the sanctity of private property.
Almost the only people who aren’t liberals are either socialists or fascists, and even fascists believe in capitalism just as liberals do.
If we’re speaking ideally, absolutely. All non-capitalists are forced to make concessions living in a capitalist nation. I’ve been left of the democrats since the 90s. I vote for the leftmost candidate that has a chance of winning the election. Unfortunately, that’s usually the Working Families Democrat.
The same thing democrats' moral cowardice did for them.
Hey, it's the self admitted troll who has dedicated themself to stalking every single comment I make because they got big mad I said genocide denial is bad.
The were too small a demographic to listen to, but they were so influential that they're responsible for trump.
Sounds like they're kingmakers and maybe they should have been treated accordingly. But that will require belatedly abandoning support for genocide, so centrists never will.
Actually a huge number of people said it was fine that Harris supported Israel, as well as a huge number who engaged in heavy denialism about Harris' support of genocide.
Yeah, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, I remember.
A Democrat or a Republican. Welcome to the United States. Select one of the two or one will be selected for you.
*Select one and one will be selected for you anyway
It’s that type of flawless, disengaging thought that brought you the Trump administration. Twice. Maybe try something different to get the 90M eligible voters to show up?
Shocking idea but I do not give a shit about the Democrats, maybe they should be trying to appeal to voters rather than the other way around? Oh wait, they cant because as the saying goes your vote doesn't matter unless you buy it in advance.
Nor do I. I did give a shit about preventing the election of a fascist dictator. Apparently that was not as important to you.
If the Democrats wanted to win they should have learned that blaming voters for their losses will get them nowhere. Because its aways the voters fault. If they loose the voters did vote hard enough, if they win the voters didnt vote hard enough so they do nothing, and if they win an outright majority in both houses you better believe that people still didn't vote hard enough because some party traitor will make sure nothing gets passed (or the Republicans will just filibuster).
When do they blame voters? I’ve never heard of that.
If you’re referring to me, you’re sadly mistaken. I only register as Democrat to vote in their primaries, but they are way too far from my values for me to consider myself one. I blame voters for not doing what smart people should be doing; manipulating their rigged system to gain the most influence rather than wasting your vote on the most ethical and impotent option.
For realz, I'm not a Democrat! I just vote for them in primaries and general elections and defend them when those mean ol' leftists come around.
The Democratic party may be a big tent party with values of varying progressive pedigree, but the adage of lying with dogs and getting fleas applies.
Bruh, are you really that dense? The most electoral votes a third-party candidate has ever won in our 250-year history is 88. It was Teddy Roosevelt back in 1912.
2028 is your year though. I can feel it.🙄
I rank independent candidates first in NYC, because it actually works as a system to prevent spoilers. I’ve cast votes for independent and green candidates in local elections. I vote for the most progressive democratic candidates in congressional primaries. What I don’t do, is live in a delusional world where voting for a third-party presidential candidate amounts to anything more than abstaining.
For a 3rd party to win, another party has to die. (See Republicans taking over the Whigs for their silence on slave states).
So, if you can get on board with that premise, which modern party of the republicans or democrats do you believe closer to destruction due to their voters abandoning them?
Republican voters seem generally happy with the people they vote for unless some specific policy starts affecting them in a way that Fox News can’t sufficiently spin.
Democratic voters seem to be voting against republicans more than for someone they really believe in.
Now, I’m not into incrementalism or reformism, but if you are, it might make sense to try to put as much electoral pressure on democrats as possible to either try to make them massively shift OR to prove to millions of democratic voters that the party would rather lose than capitulate, causing a mass loss of trust in the party, causing change (presumably).
I’m not sure I’d assume 3rd party voters are all aligned on what they want or expect out of voting 3rd party. Maybe some of them think they could win, but I don’t think I’ve met anyone who thinks that.
That’s absolutely correct. The worst possible fucking time to try and kill a party was when it was the only option other than a fascist dictatorship. Your argument could not be more tone deaf.
Then maybe that party shouldn't have risked fascism by taking advantage of the situation.
That’s true. Everyone knows the Holocaust was the fault of the Communist Party for not being more compelling in 1932.
If the communist party had as little difference between themselves and nazis as democrats have from republicans, you would be saying this without sarcasm.
Do you deflect responsibility with everything you do in life, or just when you engage people online?
Do you blame anyone who supports genocide for anything?
Of course. The problem you’re not willing to accept is there was no way to vote that would effectively stop the US from providing Israel with aid. You wasted your chance to stop fascism and minimize the horrors in Palestine so you could say you’re morally superior, and now the West Bank is being turned into a billionaire resort while the US descends into fascism. Great job. I’m sure the Palestinians appreciate your idealism at their expense.
No. The democrats were one hundred percent on board with Israels genocide, and the fact you think otherwise is because you are a genocide denier when it's your team doing it.
The opinions of who is a lesser evil are completely worthless when they come from someone who is demonstrably choosing to commit genocide denial to white wash their preferred evil.
And as always, the assumption is that anyone who doesn't love netanyahu's genocide didn't vote for harris.
Then again, your issue isn't with how anyone actually voted. Your issue is with people who object to genocide.
You use that excuse every election for two decades and it starts to seem like you're deliberately keeping the country on the cusp of fascism to ensure its never the right time.
Tone deaf is pleading to people to vote for those directly responsible for genocide even though their families are being killed because you want to remain relatively comfy in your own country, reaping the benefits of the colonialism you desperately wished was pushed back into the shadows so you can go about your life unaware of the harm you cause.
Every time a centrist loses.
"It's the voters vault we ran a terrible right wing candidate."
Democrats moved too far to the right.
The right didn't buy it but the left did. Progressives and leftists tried to warn you but the party did what it wanted anyway, secure in the knowledge that they had plenty of people who will blame the voters if that's what it takes to never listen to them.
EDIT: typo
If you never said that harris shouldn't be supporting genocide, you never encountered it.
I saw a ton of people that tried to say Kamala would be better without any actual evidence of that.
Do you think she would’ve upgraded the 5-ton bombs to 10-ton bombs, and provided bulldozers to turn the West Bank into a billionaire resort too?
According to recent reports stating that Biden never applied any pressure to israel, and considering she never made herself different than him on israel, I have no doubt if they asked she would have.