this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
152 points (98.1% liked)

Lemmy.World Announcements

29098 readers
8 users here now

This Community is intended for posts about the Lemmy.world server by the admins.

Follow us for server news 🐘

Outages πŸ”₯

https://status.lemmy.world

For support with issues at Lemmy.world, go to the Lemmy.world Support community.

Support e-mail

Any support requests are best sent to [email protected] e-mail.

Report contact

Donations πŸ’—

If you would like to make a donation to support the cost of running this platform, please do so at the following donation URLs.

If you can, please use / switch to Ko-Fi, it has the lowest fees for us

Ko-Fi (Donate)

Bunq (Donate)

Open Collective backers and sponsors

Patreon

Join the team

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

What defederating would mean:

  • We won't see beehaw.org posts/comments on other instances.

Pros:

  • There is less confusion, you can't respond to a beehaw.org user, thinking they will be able to see your response when in reality they cannot.

Cons:

  • We won't be able to see any beehaw.org comments/posts on other instances, so we will miss out on some comment threads and posts. It could be good to be able to see them and interact with the other users there even though beehaw.org users won't see any of our content.

Summary

Overall, I think it is better not to defederate, but simply unsubscribe from all of their communities (and as we no longer get posts from their instance, with time these will cease to appear on our 'front page').

beehaw.org users already can't see our posts/comments anywhere so it's not like defederating would change their experience in any way, so it wouldn't really be retaliation and would just limit the content available to lemmy.world users.

What do you think?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

What happened? Why are they making this move? I think it's a bad idea to start defederating, especially this early.

Edit: How effective or practical, for lemmy.world in the future, would a voting system be for defederating? In case it comes to that for us.

Cause it seems like a very dramatic approach, with only a few people making the decision to drop a ton of content yknow.

Not sure if it's possible even, I know it comes down to our admin, but they seem pretty cool. I dunno just thinking aloud.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They said they couldn't deal with the level of abuse and spam that came from lemmy.world users. They have a much more restrictive content policy and smaller, centralised moderation team than most other instances which exacerbated the problem.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

What's dumb is that if someone wanted to troll them they could just make an account on any number of smaller instances that they federate with. I mean, eventually they will have to be completely siloed off to prevent outside trolling.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, I suspect they will move to a whitelist the moment that functionality becomes available. Or just defederate entirely from everything and become a walled garden.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

A whitelisting feature already exists.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

thats pretty unfair, theres no reason to think that they intend on cutting themselves off from the fednet entirely

according to them this is a temporary measure until they have better tools for moderation, more mods or until things have calmed down a bit, I dont see any reason to question that

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So I have an account on beehaw and pointed this out earlier to the admins. Got snapped at because how dare I try and say what they will do in the future. I was also told if they were going to defederate from everyone they already would have. Didn't really get a response as to what they would do once people start to trolling from other instances. They don't think it'll be a problem from what I gathered

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If anything this is just going to make them an even larger target for trolling. I don't have a good solution for what they should do. But it seems that fediverse is antithetical to their goals.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

I know. It's not hard to lie your way into their instance if you really wanted to or one that has criteria to join. I really don't think they know what they got themselves into with this decision because you're right, they put a huge target on their backs.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was my thought as well. Seems like a bad idea this early in the social experiment.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, we're the new ones to the social experiment, they were here first :) Disappointing decision though.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

That's fair. Need to check my reddit privilege lol.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I hope they ran this defederation thing by their users first.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They did not. It was just dumped on everyone earlier today

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm all for protecting users from bigoted assholes, but I would be very unhappy as one of the users they aim to protect due to feeling as tho they believe they know how to act in the best interest of their users, when they don't give their community a seat at the grown-ups' table to make the decision.

I'd rather not be part of an instance in which drastic, sweeping actions are taken without consideration or feedback from their userbase. I'm not even arguing that they are wrong in doing what they did; just that I wouldn't appreciate being treated like they know what's best for me. Feels like being treated like a child.

I don't want to be part of an instance in which I'll suddenly lose access to content across Lemmy because it's 'in my best interest' according to internet strangers.

With that said, hopefully we stop accruing bigoted assholes here, we get better mod tools, and things can be refederated.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I had an account on beehaw and once I saw the post I immediately created a new account on lemmy.world for the exact reason you described. I don't want to be cut off or told what I can and can't see.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

they could, but in practice it would never amount to the level of trolling and toxicity they are receiving from .world and justworks

folks are taking this too seriously imo

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Tbh, that's kinda hard to believe. I have seen zero malicious activity in my 4 days here. Maybe their standards are just higher than mine, not sure that's a good thing in this case but whatever. Damn that sucks, beehaw had some good stuff.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Same, I've found the attitude really positive here. It reminds me of early Reddit in like 2008.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea I'm having quality discussions, the kind that get zero traction on reddit.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. Relevant discussion has continued to decline and be suppressed by stupid memes and puns. Can barely find any relevant discussion in comments anymore.

On reddit, it wouldn't be unusual that someone would talk shit to me for having a thought-out, long reply to someone.

It feels like 60% of the users are pissy teenagers spreading anti-intellectualism and another 30% are bots. Aside from a specific few niche subreddits, I don't miss reddit at all...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

One sub I was subbed to literally turned into memes, where even the comments were just links to memes and people carrying out full length discussions that way.

I sort of missed the meme culture period. And I always enjoyed writing, so it's pretty nice here.

I went and checked reddit for first time today since the 11th and I left right away.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From what I saw on their post, it seems there are bad faith actors registering in lemmy.world just to harass beehaw.org.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sigh.

Who tf comes online just to troll "beehaw" some obscure instance on an obscure platform? That's crazy to me lol.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah, some people are really werid.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, there are trolls on Reddit to be fair, it's not terribly surprising that if a lot of Reddit users move to some place, a bunch of trolls will come with, either because they too don't like reddit's changes, or because they see new communities to mess with. And I can imagine that, if someone is a troll and gets enjoyment out of bothering people and causing anger, that a community that is pretty restrictive in it's rules and tries to maintain a "calm" and "safe" sort of vibe is probably going to be a more satisfying target?

Beyond that, I do think I recall seeing one of the beehaw admins saying something about not wanting theirs to be the place all the redditors move to, because they don't want keeping the community run and moderated to be a full time thing and because they want quality over quantity, in terms of their community. If they feel like they're reaching the limit of how big a community they can comfortably handle and dont want it getting much bigger, then a controversial move like this that might lose them some users isn't going to be a problem for them.

I'm not saying I like this move, I don't personally have any real stake in it obviously not being hosted on either instance involved but I worry that fragmentation like this while people are starting to really look into the platform as a whole isn't a great look for lemmy, -but I do get where they are coming from.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's fair. I don't really have a horse in the race, just curious about the whole situation.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Alt-righters and 4-chan users. They often feel justified thru their delusions and rationalizations.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

"Who tf are these people?" Is a question I find myself asking quite often lol.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

from what i understand you will still be able to see their content, they just wont be able to see content from lemmy.world or shitjustworks

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea same. Well we can still interact with each other on their posts I suppose 🀷

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

you can interact with me on their posts, however they will not see your comments ik pretty sure

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Just like kbin, on beehaw the communities are fixed, and only admins can create communities, right?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep. It has the benefit that it concentrates the userbase in the existing communities. But it also creates a really static site and is at more risk of moderator abuse.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

If reddit taught me anything, it's a question of when; not if.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

here on kbin users can create communities freely. on beehaw, they cannot.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Anyone can make a magazine on kbin.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

What's even the point then? I guess it's either Reddit or no reddit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What happened? Why are they making this move? I think it’s a bad idea to start defederating, especially this early.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea I understand now. Makes sense. They're trying to curate their own thing. All good. Thanks

[–] darkwing_duck 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not all good. We should temporarily defederate them until they come to their senses, in fact most instances should do it together. Let them have their walled garden.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

All good as in not my thing. I don't care what they do as a collective, I do know that I wouldn't want to be apart of some weird spin cycle over there, so I kinda just feel pity for the members tbh.

I want to be in the midst of human suffering, experiencing everything.