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this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025
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This isn't debasement. This is manners.
Manners are about you thanking the host, not about the pigs you dined with. Sometimes, the host IS the pig. But it's still about you, so cast them some pearls.
You've been downvoted, but you're right.
Folks, this is what debasement is:
What Zelenskyy did was the exact opposite of that: by putting his personal pride aside for the good of Ukraine despite Trump and Vance trying to double-team him with the worst bullying they could muster, he showed incredible strength of character and statesmanship.
Make no mistake: this was not Zelenskyy showing weakness or fealty towards Trump. This was Zelenskyy jumping through the hoops necessary to deny the bullies credibility for their claims that he was not cooperating towards peace. His graciousness just sets him further above them, in terms of diplomatic credibility.
In the damn near no-win scenario Zelenskyy is in, this was as close to a victory as he could possibly have hoped for.
It's debasement because trump deserves no such respect. Zelenskyys character should never have to include bowing to this faux king. But on all accounts you are correct and I will humbly change my title if you ask.
You're right that Trump deserves no respect and that Zelenskyy shouldn't have to bow to him. And to be honest, I'm not sure what the best word to replace "debase" would be. Maybe "prostrate" would be slightly better, in the sense that it has more of a connotation of being coerced instead of willing? I don't know that it's enough of an improvement to be worth an edit.
I'm not sure if English has a single word that fully conveys "performative capitulation to the petty demands of a small man in order to outmaneuver him diplomatically."
He’s not showing Trump respect, he’s showing respect to the office of president and to the American people.
You do not think that Zelensky "lowered himself" by absorbing all that abuse, not responding to it at all, and instead praising his abusers? You can describe that as "manners" or "self control" or "civilized" or whatever else you want, and all those things may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that he lowered himself. He acted as though he were socially beneath Trump and Vance. We can all see that. Yes, it was the correct thing, and the dignified thing to do. But to claim he didn't lower himself, didn't debase himself, is warped. It's trying to spin the situation by denying the obvious, recasting it as something else.
I disagree. He didn't lower himself, he acted like the only grown up in the group while the others were throwing hissy fits
Then I have no manners and am fine with it.
That's fine, just don't seek leadership. Zelenskyy is a class act for this and I'm all the more ashamed of America for it.