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Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia (www.independent.co.uk)

submitted 6 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

293 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

Australia has enacted strict anti-hate crime laws, mandating jail sentences for public Nazi salutes and other hate-related offenses.

Punishments range from 12 months for lesser crimes to six years for terrorism-related hate offenses.

The legislation follows a rise in antisemitic attacks, including synagogue vandalism and a foiled bombing plot targeting Jewish Australians.

The law builds on state-level bans, with prior convictions for individuals performing Nazi salutes in public spaces, including at sporting events and courthouses.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Yes, I agree that not using governmental force would be more legally tolerant — as you mentioned above:

(referencing your other comment for consolidation purposes)

I support social actions that prevent their views from being held and spread.

So what we've established is that:

You are intolerant of their views...
...and won't socially accept them...
...but if given the choice to force them to stop the behavior, you are no longer willing to not tolerate them, at that extent.

Your stance is categorically "I don't think Nazis should be able to say the things that make them Nazis, and I'll be mean to them about it and hope businesses shun them, but I won't actually stop them from doing that."

So, what is your reasoning for why they should be shunned socially, but not legally? Why is it more beneficial to allow them to say specifically what they say, as opposed to preventing that by force?

[–] Kalcifer 1 points 3 days ago

[…] So, what is your reasoning for why they should be shunned socially, but not legally? Why is it more beneficial to allow them to say specifically what they say, as opposed to preventing that by force?

It may depend on what you mean by "beneficial", but, generally, I'm not necessarily arguing that not imprisoning those espousing nazi-rhetoric would be more "positive" than the alternative, I simply fear the risks of going the route of governmental force outweigh the benefits. I fear tyrannical overreach, and I think a liberal approach, while not perfect, may be the best means to stave off this outcome. But, at least we have experiments like Australia, which can be examined from a distance.

Philosophically, the question becomes rather uncomfortable for me to answer; I personally don't feel that I can be certain that my views are moral, so I tend to prefer the option that ensures the largest amount of ideological freedom. I understand that the paradox of tolerance is a threat to that idea, and it should be resisted, but I'm simply not convinced that imprisonment is the best antidote.

[–] Kalcifer 1 points 3 days ago

[…] I don’t think Nazis should be able to say the things that make them Nazis, and I’ll be mean to them about it and hope businesses shun them, but I won’t actually stop them from doing that. […]

I think this begs the question — is it certain that social intolerance wont prevent, or is likely to not prevent these ideologies from accelerating in adoption?