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I'd like to think that it's just an lgbt person who's also conservative (I'm transsexual and on the conservative side myself) but given it's "lgbtq" I kinda have a feeling it's probably a more progressive person who claimed the conservative sub to control it, rather than genuine interest...
"You are coming from an echo chamber (Reddit). You are more than welcome to not participate in this community, which I’m not sure why you’re here in the first place given that you are clearly not a conservative nor do you hold any(?) conservative views." @[email protected]
Seems pretty conservative to me.
"If you don't have conservative views, go away," "echo chambers are bad," same person...
I just took a look and.... yeah looks pretty conservative. huh. that's kinda rare to see.
I'd like to ask a question in good faith here, if that's alright.
If you are trans, why are you supporting American conservatives that platform policies against your health and existence?
I'm not asking as a 'gotcha,' because that lacks a compassionate curiosity. But I'm puzzled because these stances and identities seem incompatible and I'd like to understand better why, to you, they are.
You're under no obligation to answer, but I'm trying something new and pumping the brakes before I shut down curiosity to make a judgment. Whether you'll afford me that or not, is up to you.
Just curious, why are you assuming they are American?
I am not assuming they're American. I'm assuming they support American Conservative policy in reference to the instance that is primarily about American Conservatism being discussed. Which is how I asked the question.
I haven't the foggiest clue where this person is from or where they currently live.
Well to start, being conservative doesn't mean I necessarily support the american republican party or the various republicans in it. I like some more than others, but I typically don't vote republican.
When it comes to "my health and existence", ironically enough republicans tend to push back against transgender legislation that tramples over transsexual rights and healthcare. See the pushback against the equality act for a good example.
My views on lgbt are kinda complicated, and don't fit neatly within either the democrat or republican party, but they're "conservative" in nature (ie not new, but rather a return to how things were before).
On other issues, I tend to be conservative. For instance I'm pro-life, pro-gun, pro-free speech, etc.
I also consider myself to have far left economic views, akin to stuff like socialist policies (ubi, medicare for all, etc). So in practice I end up feeling more like a far left person with some conservative cultural/social views. There's not really a good label for people in this situation lol. I usually say "far left conservative" but that just confuses people lol.
Thank you for answering.
Why do you believe the Equality Act tramples over transsexual rights and healthcare?
And do you think your conservative values are instrinsic, or a part of your upbringing?
So on the equality act, it's a modification to existing legislation. the existing legislation protects sex-based rights (anti-discrimination), and the unstated assumption is that it includes lgbt. with the equality act it changes the definition of "sex" to refer to the vague pseudoscientific concept of "gender identity" which is predicated on the idea that transsexuals don't exist. The end result of reading the text being that sex isn't protected, and neither is transsexualism, but instead this gender identity concept.
A similar thing results in other laws/legal changes where transsexuals are just erased from the legislation. It's unclear what impacts that will have in the real world, but it's concerning nonetheless. The most recent efforts to change the icd have completely removed transsexualism, and if it's read literally, I'd lose access to healthcare.
As for my conservative views, I do not think they are intrinsic nor a part of my upbringing. I actually grew up with liberal views on social topics and have slowly become more conservative in my adult years. I used to be ambivalent and lean pro-choice on abortion, whereas as an adult I educated myself on the topic and came to the conclusion that pro-life is the proper way to go.
If we're to do a deep dive into psychology and political philosophy, I don't think my underlying values have changed (I still support freedom, life, etc). But rather my views on the best way to approach that have changed.
Cool.
I don't agree in the slightest with anything you said. I didn't ask as a means of debate, however, so I will refrain from any sort of counter-argument.
But I think the last part of what you said elucidates a lot. I think underlining that your values stayed the same, but your interpretations of how to best uphold those values being the part that changed gives some insight into the compatibility of your ethos. That's a very helpful for understanding others.
Thank you for answering truthfully and in good faith.
Yup no worries. I don't mean to start a debate. You were just curious about my views so I shared them :).
I'm really hoping the fediverse can be a place where we can discuss, and politely disagree, without being at each other's throats. On other sites like reddit and twitter it feels like everything has to be super hostile or echochamber. I think it'd be nice if we could just chat and get some mutual understanding going on.
There's definitely room for debate communities/magazines but yeah here isn't the place I think.
I find this really interesting, if I may ask (in good faith), what makes you a conservative yet LGBTQ+ person? Are you in the U.S.? If not that may explain why you're conservative in the first place. I'm really curious.
I don't identify with lgbtq, and view it as antagonistic towards transsexuals. I'm transsexual (medically/biologically) so I fall under lgbt by default lol.
As for conservatism, I've slowly been moving towards conservative views due to various arguments, observations, etc. that I found convincing. For instance I am pro-life, pro-gun, etc.
I am indeed in the US, here in California (a red/conservative part of it though). Having the conservative views I do I end up a bit frustrated, since a lot of the republican party just pushes capitalist/corporate policies, and doesn't really focus on the conservative things I find important.
Apologies, I would have the Idea it's not being straight since gender and sex don't match (most the time, there are operations and what not) so i'd thought that'd fall under the LGBTQ category, so please don't take offense
You're 100% right with that 3rd paragraph, conservatives do tend to push stupid laws and shit, especially those that target LGBTQ, but also shit like Hunter Biden and Hillary a while ago. While I agree those are issues, they're in attempt to cover up other issues bigger issues to get away with it (Ex. Trump)
I don't mean for this to get off track, just another thing I find interesting, you said you were pro-life, do you think that should mean throughout their whole life? How do you feel conservatives are handling pro-life beliefs? Because a lot of the GOP are preventing or taking way things like free school lunches, healthcare, or safe living environment for the child.
I understand why some are pro-life and that everyone should live a great life, but i don't think they stick to it's true purpose if they take the "great" part away. I am personally pro choice, because there is scientific evidence babies don't even have a conscious till a certain amount of weeks, and it's as if a pregnancy never was going to happen in the first place.
Not only that but some people aren't ready for a child, aren't prepared to give it love they need, adoption centers (from what I have seen) rarley have children that are adopted and are packed. Not only that but many health complications can occur during pregnancy, and sometimes it resorts to abortion. Schools aren't even safe for children.
We're not pro-abortion trying to kill off babies for the thrill, rather we feel families should have a choice in what's best for them or even their child. What's the point of having the child if you can't give it the love and care they need? It may sound sick to say but sometimes it's more humane if it didn't have to live in this world.
My issue wasn't so much the implication of it being "not straight" but of the LGBTQ label as opposed to LGBT. and no worries, no offense taken at all :) sorry if my comment came across as harsh. Whether transsexuals count as our own sexuality/orientation or as "straight" I suppose is just a linguistic debate lol.
Agreed. I can't say I'm fond at all of the republican party, even though I have conservative views.
So this is an instance I was referring to about how I feel the GOP isn't exactly pushing conservative values. I'm pro-life in every sense of the word. I support providing healthcare and that sort of thing. The "Jesus" approach so to speak. Help the needy, heal the sick, feed the hungry. It also means that I'm anti-war, against the death penalty, etc. I also support veganism. Not exactly a typical R/GOP type lol, but my family are closer to the "old left/liberal" type and I still have a lot of my way of thinking in that regard. I saw a comic once that suggested the "old left" ends up looking a lot like conservatives nowadays lol. I think it's fitting.
I won't start a debate here, but I will say I do understand the pro-choice viewpoint (as I was previously pro-choice). I think a lot of the concerns come down to niche cases (which I'm okay granting) and the issue of financial stability and support, which I feel are resolved through left-wing economics.
So I end up with some weird/uncommon views like the idea that we should pay women to leave the workforce and be mothers, and should give financial aid to families. Democrats dislike it because it pushes old gender roles, Republicans dislike it because it's a form of welfare or wealth redistribution.
Out of curiosity is your view that women should be paid to leave the workforce and be raise kids, or that a parent should be paid to leave the workforce to raise kids?
Because if the view is just that there should be a UBI for a stay at home parent then I don't disagree.
Why does the “lgbtq” make you think that?
The "q" in lgbtq often refers to the q slur, and it's a newer acronym largely used by progressives. conservative lgbt people either stick with the classic lgbt, or in recent years have started using lgb as a way of distancing themselves from the transgender movement.
Not saying it's impossible for conservatives to use lgbtq, but it's rare IMO (speaking as someone on the conservative side in the lgbt community).
I've got mine so fuck you mentality... I'm a straight male but I support the shit out of everyone as long as they aren't shitting on people and distancing yourself from our Trans brothers and sister is awful and you know it... we are all people in the end and we need love and support...
You say "you support the shit out of everyone" except that's logically and literally impossible. There are groups with conflicting and contradictory worldviews, and to support one is to reject the other.
I'm not distancing myself from trans people. I am trans. I'm distancing myself from the transgender movement, which is mostly not made up of transsexuals.
I do not and cannot support the transgender movement because their foundational worldview is that transsexuals like myself do not exist. And until they yield on that topic, I cannot support them without denying my own existence.
I try to love and support everyone, but that means disagreeing with harmful pseudoscientific ideologies like the transgender movement. It means distancing myself from lgbtq progressives. Because those ideologies and worldviews are harmful to trans people.
I have no idea what you think "transgender" and "transsexual" mean, but I can almost guarantee it's not what other people mean when they say those things.
When I say transsexual I refer to people with the medical condition transsexualism that's been known and studied for over 100 years now.
When I say "transgender" I refer to those people who "identify as transgender". It appears to be a political movement, and not one I agree with.
There's a great effort by the transgender community and transvestites as a whole to appropriate transsexualism and deny transsexuals exist, as I mentioned in my previous post. Naturally my usage of the word transsexual will differ from theirs, because they are literally trying to deny transsexuals exist.
Yep, what I said then.
This is a good example of why people who identify as conservative shouldn't be trying to moderate LGBTQ+ spaces, even if they identify somewhere in that spectrum themselves. Conservatism at its heart is fundamentally focused on determining how other people do not belong to your "in" group and do not deserve the same privileges and rights as you do. Put more famously, "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
You're not quite doing it here with your really badly couched transmedicalist take and your skirting around actually saying what you mean, but we all know what you mean so I'm not sure why you're being so coy about it.
Definitely not unique to conservativism. I think that's just a facet of humanity. Modern day progressivism is infamous for shooting itself in the foot with purity tests.
You misunderstand. People do have a strong tendency to do that, yes. Conservativism is about that, it enshrines that. You can have leftism without infighting. You can have LGBTQ+ without radical exclusion. You cannot have conservativism without exclusion of outgroups.
That's an excellent point, you're totally right. I just did a "both sides". There's a massive difference between the two, and I shouldn't have equated them.
I support protection for all kinds of people, both transsexual and transvestite. What I care about on this topic though is clarity and recognition of individuals, and being able to clearly talk about different demographics. That's simply impossible to do if you try to use the same word to refer to entirely different kinds of people and different situations.
How can you speak about homosexuality, if you call straight people "gay" and "homosexual"? it's impossible!
You accuse me of transmedicalism, but I'd argue against this accusation. "transmedicalism" is a word that's used to describe people with a different view, relating to gender identity and gender dysphoria with gender identity disorder, and is unrelated to transsexuals and our issues/needs. many transmedicalists also deny transsexuals exist.
As long as there's clarity in speech, and a recognition of my medical condition (transsexualism) without conflation or appropriation, then I'm happy. I don't mind supporting others with different situations. but I won't yield and forfeit my ability to speak about myself and my medical situation.
Fella, you described transgenderism as "pseudoscience" and a "harmful ideology". You don't get to go back and try to claim you're actually totally fine with it and just want everyone to be clear what they mean... Especially not when you still haven't actually said what you mean. You were very open about your in- and out-groups there.
This is what I find so baffling. You wear it on your sleeve, but the moment people actually address your big claimed grievance you back away and won't own it. At least if you're going to side with the bigots that want you dead, don't be such a fucking coward about it.
Yeah I think I miss read your comment as saying you wanted it lgb... my bad I assumed something and didn't fully read what ya said...my comment is deleted somehow wish it was still up anyhoo I'm super confused on the nuance on this because ive never heard any transgender or transsexual person in my life not support the other or say they dont exist but Ive only had a handful in my life at different times so you probably know more about the community... just be supportive and accepting and your alright in my book... and honestly Ive never once heard what you are saying come out of any transgender or transsexual friends mouths your the first Ive heard of it... very confused on why someone would say you don't exist cause you do
Well I'm pretty careful when I use the acronym. Personally I consider myself, and support "LGBT". There's an "LGB" movement that I find myself aligned with, albeit disagreeing with. Then there are the people who use "LGBTQ" or "LGBTQIA" and other such things, and I find myself opposed to them.
Yes, it's unfortunately the case that on this topic there's a few different worldviews/beliefs and they contradict each other, which leads to a lot of hostility and upset feelings in both directions. I agree that we should try to be kind, understanding, and supportive. But to do that means I need to disagree with some worldviews that may end up hurting some people's feelings.
The issue is because many people with transvestism conditions identify themselves as "transgender" and hold the belief that they have a "gender identity" that differs from their natal sex. In many cases they argue that this is due to having an oppositely sexed brain. The problem is that that view is simply untrue. There are sexed brains, and there are people with oppositely sexed brains, but that condition is transsexualism, not transvestism. And so these transgender/transvestite people try to argue it applies to them, and then deny that people outside of their situation (namely transsexuals) exist.
One of their big ideas involves "gender dysphoria". They believe that gender dysphoria arises due to the sex of the brain differing from the sex of the body, and thus dysphoria results. However, transsexuals like myself prove this to be untrue; as we do not experience "gender dysphoria" (or any other transvestism symptom) at any point.
Due to this, these people often start saying I'm "not actually trans" or that I'm "being a bigot" or that I "actually do have such symptoms and am lying/mistaken" and so on. a very hostile response.
I'd really like there to be some mutual understanding and arrival of views, but I don't think it's likely the way things are going...
I think you're mistaken.
why not q?
As I said, the q often refers to the slur, which many more conservative minded lgbt people are opposed to. in practice, the use of the acronym just ends up kinda being correlated with particular mindsets/views.
It's not a hard rule or anything just a general tendency I see.
Interesting point