this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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"controversial salute" is certainly one way to phrase a Nazi salute.
I can't believe we're downplaying Nazi salutes. If this were in a political satire film 15 years ago it'd be dismissed as being too absurd.
The media already goosestepping to the new regime.
Super pumped for 4 years (good lord please let it only be 4) of chickenshit euphemisms
Oh no, we were promised no more votes would be needed after 4 years. We'll likely see Don Jr. in a few though after the heart attack...
It's very disturbing because it's creeping acceptance by massaging the message over time.
First a billionaire makes the salute
Then you get everyone to debate it
Then everyone associates it less and less to nazism
Then it's just a gesture billionaires do
Then it's just a gesture
Then it becomes more common
Then it becomes normal
I mean, it’s Forbes. It’s essentially one of the primary mouthpieces of this new-age Business Plot we’re living through. I’m unsurprised they’re sanewashing this.
Its forbes. A rag I wouldn't wipe my ass with it.
They've made such a hard right turn it's insane. It's not just "super fiscally conservative ideals" but straight up propaganda at this point
Playing devil's advocate here.
I don't think he meant it as "let's go round up the Jews age conquer Europe" (or Canada or whatever). He's very likely on the autism spectrum and likely thought it was funny and just wanted to see how the mass media would react. He acts like a child in so many other contexts (dancing robots at the Tesla event? Seriously?), why not here?
That doesn't make it okay, and it's certainly inappropriate given the event, but it also doesn't make him a Nazi.
No, but coupled with the other people he's teaming up with, and the other things he's done, it's a pretty sure bet he's a nazi and meant it as such. Autism is not an excuse, and nazi salutes are not even in the same ballpark as dancing fucking robots! How do you even manage to equate the two???
I never said it was.
Autism makes it more difficult to read social norms, and if you mix that with childishness and enough money to not care what others think (and maybe some drugs as well), you get Elon.
I explicitly said it doesn't make it okay, I said it doesn't imply anything about his personal political views.
They're both childish. There's really not more to it.
Look up his family history. His grandpa was a technocrat and raved about Orania. He's a product of his upbringing. His Dad ran emerald mines during Apartheid. Racism is taught. He's a damn nazi.
Are you a product of your upbringing?
My parents were pretty conservative, I'm religious and my religion leans very conservative, and I grew up in a pretty conservative part of a liberal state (lots of, "those libs are holding us back"). You'd assume I'd be very conservative, no? I was as a kid, but once I moved to a conservative state, I saw how both major parties were full of nonsense and found a home with libertarianism (not the Libertarian Party, they're an embarrassment). I'm a bit further left on many social issues than most Democrats, and I take a bit from both parties on fiscal issues. Most of my neighbors are conservative, most my coworkers are progressive, I don't have a bunch of libertarian friends or anything, and I just don't talk about politics much.
My cousin married a white South African and I have a white South African coworker, and both are quite liberal despite having a similar upbringing as Musk (not rich, but certainly benefitted from apartheid) and growing up in my very red state.
I don't think anyone is "a product of their upbringing." If Elon is a Nazi, that's because of choices he made, not his parents. If we consider the totality of the circumstances, I don't think Elon making a brief, Nazi-looking salute saying "my heart goes out to you" is the smoking gun people claim it is, I think it's much more likely that it's him looking for attention. He knew the mass media was going to make a spectacle of him regardless like they always do, so he decided to give them something to talk about.
If Elon or anyone is going to actually do Nazi stuff and mean it, it'll be behind closed doors, not on a nationally televised Inauguration Day event.
You're still a product of your upbringing. I was Conservative, like my whole damn family. I in recent years woke up. I never did hateful acts, but I had the thoughts. Sometimes I wonder if people can see the filth on me, see that I made racist jokes, etc. I'm teaching my child differently. She can go to church or synagogues, or whatever. I've told her we'll go if she wants to. But she also knows how I feel about my days in church, and she remembers the days when she was younger and what she overheard. She respects religion, but hasn't shown any inclination towards it. (Baptist churches, btw, in a Bible belt area, where people didn't fight much about desegregation only since extreme minority until the 90s.)
To some extent, sure. My point is that we all make decisions at some point where we become independent of our parents. We may reach similar conclusions, but we are responsible for the ideologies we choose to align ourselves with.
If Musk is a Nazi, it's because of choices he made more than how he was raised. He bears that responsibility.
Not to criticize you personally for playing devils advocate but fuck this weak ass justification.
This guy is the richest person in the world and he didn't become that by being some disadvantaged individual who doesn't understand what he's doing at times. He knew full well what he was doing. He was grinning the whole fucking time and acts like he knows he's untouchable.
I agree that I don't think he wants to 'round up Jews and exterminate them,' but I do think he wanted to empower the nut jobs that do believe in that (not just Jews but every Republican enemy) while also drumming up controversy to get everyone talking about him like he's always done in the past. He thinks this is all a game with few stakes for himself.
Exactly. None of what you said paints him as a Nazi, he wanted to get closer to powerful people, and Trump seemed like his ticket in. He won't be able to run for President himself, but he can get close to a sitting President. If the tables were turned and he saw an opportunity on the left, he would've courted Harris or Biden or whatever (but neither were the right fit).
I honestly don't know what Elon's political views are, he mostly seems to be interested in being part of technical progression (hence Tesla, Hyperloop, and SpaceX). He seems similar to Trump in wanting to leave a legacy, and latching on to Trump seems like his attempt to do that. Buying Twitter also became part of that as well.
Maybe he's a Nazi, idk. My point is that this event doesn't prove anything other than that he's a childish attention whore.
Trump wants to leave a legacy???
Yeah, he wants to be remembered. That's pretty much what all narcissists want. Basically, he wants to be the one that made America even more wealthy or whatever.
Doesn't seem like he cares about the country at all, only himself.
I never said he did. His motivations are his name being remembered. That's it. So he needs to make a big impact, whether good or bad. That's a legacy.
Yeah, I guess it is.
"I dont think he meant to shoot anyone he just walked up to a cop and pointed a gun at them, he likely thought it was funny and wanted to see how the cop would react"
That's... quite a bit more extreme than what I was talking about. On the other hand, people have gotten shot by police for much less (even just verbally standing up for their rights), so maybe you have a point.
Elon isn't very classy, but I honestly don't think he's a Nazi.
My point was you can misguidedly perform and action and it be judged unfavorably and considered a bad idea by the population at large.