Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from [email protected] for being fake vegans.
From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.
PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don't want to insult anyone here being a 'bastard'. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.
PPS: Some instances or clients seem to compress the screenshots in a way they're unreadable. Find the full resolution here: https://imgur.com/a/8XdexTm
Linking the affected users and mods: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
I'd argue minimizing suffering is basis for all ethics, just that they are achieving it in different ways.
Deontological ethics in a vacuum cause more suffering than utilitarianism. Yet (most) deontological philosophies seek to achieve as much good as possible - and therefore minimizing harm. Kant's categorical imperative is - as a layman - just a formalization of: "Do what is good for you AND others. Don't do what is good for you but bad for others."
And I believe if you ask an ethics board at a why something was not permitted, you will always get the result: "Causes too much harm". This happens despite them being allowed to evaluate based on many different philosophies.
I know very little ethics systems that don't inevitable lead to a society with less suffering if strictly followed by most. Although that might just be because society as is is objectively unethical.
So if I understand correctly, a cow can be killed with a gun to the back of the head painlessly and its death prevents hunger for an entire family for the winter so killing it is ethical. Got it.
Again, I'm not vegan nor particularly experienced in vegan arguments but there is clear suffering here:
they're provided, veterinary care, protection from the elements, protection from predators, drinkable water, space to graze, and opportunities to socialize. it's not imprisonment.
Those have nothing to do with imprisonment.
If I locked 10 people in a room and regularly gave them food and water they would still be imprisoned because they couldn't leave.
We know humans suffer from imprisonment and we accept since the mid 20th century that this applies to all humans. It's not a big stretch to assume imprisonment causes suffering for animals as well.
Besides, most cows on the planet have literally nothing of what you described. Except maybe drinkable water and protection from predators.
that's not true.
Most cows on the planet are currently living in factory farms as cattle a few months away from being slaughtered.
Not in factory farms. Preventative antibiotics are not veterinary care.
Limited protection. In summer extreme heat from being stuck inside without air conditioning.
Not inside factory farms.
Not inside factory farms.
so you see they do get protection from the elements
most dairies, even large scale dairies, have pasture. beef cattle are raised 12 to 14 months grazing before going to a feedlot. so where are all these life-long confined cattle?
it seems like you think cattle spend their entire lives in a cafo. they don't.
they are, and that's not all the care they get
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
What other care do they get?
care to cite this?
Good lord you argue in bad faith. One line replies of basically "no", "doubt it", "citation needed".
Like, come on man. How insufferable.
this isn't evidence, it's a rhetorical complaint about being asked for evidence.
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
How isn't it evidence?
your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith
No u
US 2022:
Haven't found any numbers for other countries.
a full 1/4 of all cattle never spend more than 45 days in a cafo, but even those that do don't necessarily have the conditions you are describing, nor do they live there their entire lives
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
Where's your citation for this
Is so.
saying it doesn't make it true
It does
it's not imprisonment. it's husbandry