this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023

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What self-professed 'centrists' sound like (media.kbin.social)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[+] [email protected] -16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Didn't realize I worshipped Biden. Here I thought I only voted for him because he was better than the death of the American Republic.

[+] [email protected] -16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

"I voted for a literal fascist to save the Republic" sounds a lot more like you're scared that taxes will go up by 2%. Whether you worship him like the drooling knuckledraggers with Trump flags is immaterial. It doesn't make you any less of a fucking fascist.

[+] [email protected] -13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Palingenetic ultranationalism with a disdain for democracy and rule of law, a fetish for violence, and tribal bigotry?

So, you know, everything we've seen 'MAGA' to stand for?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This "you don't know what fascism is" thing is getting so old. It's ultra-patriotism. Nation before self. USA has had a fascist streak forever. Even pre-WW2 and even post-WW2 we had fascist sympathizers.

None of this is new. MAGA is not new. Fascism is not complicated.

What did Mussolini want? Italy first. What did Hitler want? Germany first. What did the Japanese junta want? Japan first. What did the British, French, US etc want? Preservation of the balance of power. No one country first. NOBODY first. Trade and negotiation and treaties between equals instead.

What is so hard to understand about any of this? It's really not hard. What does Putin want? Russia first. What does Xi Jinping want? China first. What do the US, UK, France etc want? The balance of power, no one country first. Instead trade and negotiation and treaties between equals.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

define "Free Speech", oh moderator or "MakeLemmyGreatAgain"

[+] [email protected] -8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

And again you are wrong. This time on the concept of free speech.

Free speech just means government can't pass laws restricting speech. Does not mean you do not suffer consequences from a private party. To the effect a corporation banning you for your speech. Being removed from a social media site due to your comments. None of that is infringing on your free speech since there are no governmental restrictions on most things said/done. Just a private party wanting no part of the content the other party is providing.

Freedom of speech includes the right:

Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).

Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).
Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).

To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages.
Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).

To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns.
Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).

To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions).
Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).

To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest).
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).

Freedom of speech does not include the right:

To incite imminent lawless action.
Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969).

To make or distribute obscene materials.
Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).

To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).

To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. 
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).

Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).

Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Tell me, who is "worshiping" Biden? I don't see people superimposing Biden onto Rambo or Jesus Christ as they do at literally every MAGA rally...

[+] [email protected] -6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, that's almost exclusively a Republican trait.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That simply speaks to the echo-chamber you're in; I see criticism of Biden all the time. But remember, your words were, "worship." The sheer cultism level of MAGA, and his likely nomination as GOPs pick again is leaps-and-bounds above anything Biden has. Biden wasn't my first pick and I have my grievances of him as well.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Several problems with this:

How is this Lemmy instance representative of all leftists and not a very select subset? Hell there are subs and communities within the leftist spectrum that completely differ.
You said people worship both sides, but where is the worship comparable to superimposing Trump onto Rambo and Jesus Christ routinely?
You said, "Biden receives no criticism from his own side" yet here I am within this Lemmy instance as a progressive-leftist saying that he's too old and not progressive enough, and wasn't even my 3rd pick in the Democratic primaries. This sentiment is wide.
In February, 58% of Democrats supported the nomination of someone other than Biden; this is less than Republicans for Trump...

[+] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

I don't believe you've credibly evidenced that Lemmy is statistically representative of all subgroups of leftists. That you presume upon this with anecdotes is deeply questionable. I wish Push Shift still worked for Reddit because this would be so easy to search the comment base.

Personally, I don't consider him a charismatic person. I consider him a character in the negative sense, but that's different. Off-the-cuff improv is horrendous (covevfe, his disastrous speech about the nuclear deal, drinking bleach, nuking hurricanes, etc.). There is quite literally no redeeming quality I see in a persn like that. Neither my mother nor father would be proud of me if I embraced a single aspect of his character.

Trump is just as much of a cripple if you ask me. In fact numerous psychologists have come forward to question not only Trump's mental faculties, but whether he is a full-blown narcissistic sociopath. Either way, I don't really care about arguing over Biden vs Trump; one is twice-impeached and under several serious criminal investigations... The other isn't under a single one.

However Biden is literally a cripple and the fact as you said 58% of democrats voted for him is very worrying. Both sides are completely fucked up, if Trump just went away at least for me it would be much better.

That's not what I said. I need you to work with me here and read a little bit more closely. This is part of the problem. Incredibly, a sizable chunk of Americans lack reading capabilities beyond the 6th grade unfortunately.

Won't sit here and say Democrats are prefect, but you're lying to yourself or just being lazy if you truly believe both sides are equally fucked up. Again, saying this as someone who's been in both camps throughout my life.

Ok but you’d expect a lot more criticism of Biden from the mainstream media. They are all too focused on Trump, he isn’t even president anymore and isn’t the only Republican candidate.

He's the primary Republican candidate and under numerous serious investigations. It's like Al Capone all over again. What do you expect? Yes, Biden is boring; but like I said, Trump is also a character. And sensationalism sells. That's why Trump is so popular with the uninformed and gullible.

Meanwhile people like me hold my nose and vote for Biden because I am informed on the issues and know who is a much bigger threat to America (Hello... Inciting an insurrection on January 6th!?). Was Biden my ideal choice? Far from it.