After being harassed in multiple discord channels by powermod FlyingSquid the news mod blackbeard has shuttered his account and moved to bluesky.
https://lemmy.world/u/Blackbeard
"The recklessness with which people downvote polite disagreements reminds me of all the worst parts of Reddit, and it proves to me that this isn't the social media savior I'd hoped it would be, and is instead just another echo chamber. I hope eventually lemmy.world (and the fediverse more broadly) can grow out of that, but some of the behavior I've seen on the inside from both mods and admins doesn't really inspire much confidence for that kind of evolution in the short term. "
FlyingSquid is the same mod who has the power to siteban people from lemmy.world
Why does lemmy.world keep having issues with their powermods and admins? Why do powermods get the ability to siteban their enemies from the largest instance?
Flying Squid has a site wide reputation for being like this. Arguing/discussing anything with this person is like talking to a wall. Not to mention their overuse and abuse of authority.
If you want some insight, check this user's comments and sort by controversial. Then do the same for FlyingSquid.
Have some citations for that abuse of authority? OP alluded to abuse of authority by pointing out various powers FlyingSquid has, but in my mind very tellingly didn't actually provide any examples of abuse of authority. The screenshotted conversation, where a person with some site admin powers is reporting things as a regular user, and then when a mod gets really hostile and insulting with them, simply says "Oh, okay, I think I just won't participate in your stuff then, if my presence is unwanted," doesn't exactly paint the picture of some kind of power-mad petulant tyrant.
Hey, yo, I got one! I once argued with FS about something where he continuously attempted to goad me, argued disingenuously, and acted childishly, and when I rightfully called him out on all of that, he removed my comment. It was a rather small abuse of power, but I have seen him act righteously indignant, especially when he is called out for acting like a child. He does not differentiate this from a personal attack, especially when he was very much responsible for escalating several interactions he has with others.
What community did this take place in?
Edit: I think I found it.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12606768
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=1040702
It's sort of an ESH situation, and after that length of bickering I can't see why either of you continued the conversation. But I don't at all agree with your summary. It looks to me like he wanted to talk facts, you wanted to insult him and avoid the factual discussion, and he ended the conversation and then removed one comment afterwards where you started going after him personally ("insipid" "impetuous" "childish").
I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish by refusing to answer his questions and instead inflaming the bickering, but ending the conversation and removing the escalation sounds like the right response to me.
Additionally, I called him childish because he was mocking others, and I pointed that out to him with his own quote.
He was not arguing in good faith, and to believe otherwise is to, frankly, underestimate him.
I did answer his questions. He didn't like the answers. They weren't either-or question, and it can, indeed, be answered with answers he doesn't like, because those questions were leading.
It's clear FS has been doing this for some time and Blackbeard was getting sick and tired of it. Telling someone who regularly reports users to mind what they consider report worthy is something I imagine a lot of mods have to do. Saying "Well then, I guess I won't report anything if that's the way it's going to be" is pretty childish IMO. Especially considering FS is a mod themselves.
FS is just very combative in nature. I've seen it several times. They're not an easy person to have a discussion with.
So, no citations for abuse of power? Just that they had a disagreement with someone in Discord?
I mean sure, here's an example. https://lemm.ee/post/44255924/15323391
I thought this one was ironic given the topic of conversation from this post.
Oh no! What happened after saroh was banned?
It would be silly if your case for "abuse of power" was that two months ago, FlyingSquid sent one rude message to one user because he made a mistake, so I know it's not that.
People on Lemmy really seem to hate his guts, that much is apparent. Not just in this thread but everywhere else as well.
I don't think they actually do. I think it's a very vocal contingent, which has at least a little bit of overlap with the "Kamala Harris is literally Hitler" contingent. Also, I don't participate enough in lemmy.world to be aware of what their normal moderation style is, but just based on this one instance it sounds like FlyingSquid unlike most LW mods is interested in taking some kind of action against the "Kamala Harris is literally Hitler" contingent.
Make of that what you will.
The general message I’m getting in the comments here are pretty favorable to FS. He’s a good guy. And his private discussion should not have been made public.
This entire post is because of FlyingSquid throwing a tantrum because Blackbeard told them to mind how they report comments. That's all the was asked. This is after months of this behavior. Then FlyingSquid goes on this whole rant about how they feel unsafe and took a less than hour silence as being ignored and began acting even more childishly.
Meanwhile I gave one example of FlyingSquid literally running into the same thing for a community they mod and threatening to ban the person with absolutely zero discussion. They could have just started with a warning like Blackbeard did but instead went straight for threatening to ban the user.
Are you not seeing the double standard?
It is obvious that you and I see the screenshotted conversation very differently from one another.
I don't think FlyingSquid should have sent one rude message to that one user that one time, no. I don't see that as any kind of abuse of power.
I think I've said about as much as I want to say about this situation at this point.
Yes, we clearly do.
As an individual action and for majority of users, I would agree with you. But given how FlyingSquid behaved after being asked not to over-report comments and then proceeded to say how they're not going to report anymore, they don't feel safe or welcome in c/news, and views it as hostile. Their treatment of the user in the post I linked just comes across as being very abusive. If FlyingSquid viewed what Blackbeard so badly, what does that say about about their treatment of users in the communities they mod when they approach with much more hostility?
Because it is a hostile approach what are you on about. People aren't clairvoyants to be able to see the future and read minds of mods who will take a look at the reports. They won't know that their reports are causing a single mod to boil over in anger, especially when apparently there were two reports in two weeks?
So now you have a situation where one person sees something and reports it, and the other has been pissed off for two weeks, but not communicating their annoyance.
So the mod overreacts and reaches out to say "don't report!!!!" To which the other person says "I think this is a valid report". Which then evolves to "ok I won't report anymore".
First, why the fuck would you confront someone over two reports in two weeks? Second, why not end the conversation like an adult - saying "reporting this as misinfo is against our rules" and end it there? Third, why leave the site and their modding duties alltogether over a single interaction - with someone who hasn't been confronted before about this issue and was unaware of it? Fourth why call "ok I'll not be reporting" childish / immature as if reporting is some divine duty of the user?
The way it should've been handled is a) don't confront people over nothing. Check HALT - hungry angry lonely tired and don't start anything when that's the case. B) if they need to confront, talk to your fellow mods first to present a unified front. C) be succint and state what you find to be a problem. Don't be an ahole about it. D) when the other person reacts with "I don't want to report anymore" reply with "I am sorry to hear that and I'd rather you wouldn't stop, but ultimately that's your choice to make". Don't antagonize further for no reason.
One clarification, it was two reports in one week, I don't know why I typed out two weeks. You're completely right though. No one needs to put up with being berated, the peaceful offer to just not do reports anymore is a lot more kind than I would have been about it.
The 2 a week occurrence was just the past week and it was clear this has been going on for some time. Look at what BB said "you routinely report simple disagreements as misinformation" and "This has been going on for months". BB just didn't make a big deal out of it. Regardless of the frequency, our moderators moderate the communities out of their own free time. If they want to go to someone on the side and say "don't report stuff like this" to save themselves time they are well within their rights to do so. That's how the conversation started, no hostilities or anything. Just saying "Hey this doesn't break our community rules so please stop reporting it". A mature and adult-like response to something like this would have been "I disagree, but fine." It didn't need more that. A mature person could have also said "Can we look into making it a rule or having a discussion about it at least?" if they were feeling passionate about the subject. FS then had a very childish response of saying "Well I just won't report anymore then". That's not an appropriate way to respond to something like this. I've flagged comments before that got ignored even though I think they should. I've never had a mod have to have this kind of conversation with me but I also never made it a big deal and just re-thought about what comments should be reported.
As for your steps, I agree with you for the most part. I don't know if BB should have talked to the other mod(s) before having this kind of conversation as I feel that's a bit extra and unnecessary. If mods had to deliberate over every report and comment than they would get nothing done. Also, I don't see how BB antagonized FS. He was well within his rights to say "stop reporting stuff like this"
Everything can be said one way, or the other. Hitting someone with full blame with no diplomacy in between will get people to be defensive. I don't get why "I'll stop reporting" is a childish thing to do - a mod just asked him to do that. They provided no easy way to differentiate between "misinformation worthy" and "not". Hell, they even had two mods say the exact opposite thing and then heard "do what we both tell you". The way it starts with a screenshot, first conversation they ever had, no "hey wanted to talk about something I've been seeing recently". Like, read the exchange and assume BB is pissed / annoyed, and Squid is neutral / doesn't know at the start, and becomes pissed / annoyed later. Like the "you should know better" message - are you there to stop the reports, or are you there to tell off / antagonize the user? "happening for months" is also a huge "nono".
This is something that corporations teach every manager / team leader in the company. To not use absolutes, to not embelish, to use language that refrains from personal observations and instead focus on facts and truths. "you are always late" when someone had to drop off kids twice this week because their spouse was sick. "You never do what I ask you" when someone has done 19 things you asked them, and forgot the 20th - which to you happens to be the "important" thing, but you haven't communicated that priority to them. All of these piss people off and diminish their contribution / their effort or their circumstances.
They absolutely should have talked to the other mod. If this indeed has been happening for months and was "annoying" enough to warrant a confrontation, it needs to be talked about among the modteam. There are millions of people out there in the world, each with their own character, their own beliefs and behaviors. One person would get annoyed, the other welcomes it. Ultimately it needs to be agreed as to what needs to be done - this isn't some huge violation that's blatantly obvious as being "bad and requiring corrective actions". And if it is - it requires mods to talk about it first. And if it isn't - it can be met with a shoulder shrug and two button presses that probably say something to the line of "ignore report".
It's not an adult-like response. I expect this kind of thing from a child or someone who's emotionally manipulative. Setting boundaries is part of everyday life. Agreeing/disagreeing with the boundary is also part of everyday life. Blowing it out of proportion just tells me this person cannot handle being told something they don't like. You don't jump to extremes when someone makes a request of you. That's not healthy.
This will be a difference in opinion. But I genuinely don't see it that way. Saying "you're a mod too, so you should know where I'm coming from and what these rules mean" is not out of line in the slightest. And commenting on a trend or a habit is also not a "nono" in my books. I honestly don't see it as antagonistic in the slightest.
I see where you're coming from about the behavior of managers and speaking to the other mod. It's not technically incorrect for you to make that comment. But at the end of the day our mods are all volunteers who also have personal lives. They don't get paid for this. Comparing them to a professional manager, who is trained, vetted, and paid to be what a company wants them to be is not a fair comparison if I'm being honest. This is a community driven environment. Our mods are mods because they care. Acting hostile to them when they're just trying their best is not a good look. I've had some of my comments removed at times. I didn't agree with it but I let it slide because I don't feel like it should be made a big deal.
"you're a mod too, so you should know where I'm coming from and what these rules mean" is a whole lot of a different sentence than "you should know better". That's what I'm saying - you and I can sit down on the toilet and think of a million ways of saying it better. Happening for months doesn't need to be brought up - you are reacting to what is happening now and what you want to happen instead. Dwelling on the past is counterproductive. You are informing a user for the very first time about something they shouldn't be doing - they know it then and there. Mentioning "you have made this mistake multiple times now but I didn't say anything!" is blaming someone for not reading your mind. If it happens after you confronted someone and you did it again? Sure, bring up the previous conversation.
Even if you go the confrontation route - I see a misinfo report that shouldn't be that, please don't report things as these comments. - oh I disagree - that's your right but ultimately I'm asking you to stop reporting comments like these - oh then I'll stop reporting alltogether - i'd rather you still reported abuse, but please don't report opinion as misinfo. Thank you.
End scene. No need to keep arguing, no need for personal feelings, no need for bad communication.
Mods being volunteers with personal lives doesn't really excuse a bad interaction. Just because companies train people for something doesn't mean it is some esoteric knowledge. It needs to be pointed out to "level" the knowledge of every single manager / tlead. But at the end of the day, it's just good listening and objectively looking at something, and not letting your emotions get the better of you.
I see where you're coming from, but I just don't agree with it. I think this is just a case where we'll have to agree to disagree. Hopefully, you don't take it personally because you did actually provide some thought provoking comments. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
There’s a mod log, but also from this post I just found out a bot is used to hide the admin/mod doing the actions.
FS is annoying and thinks every single time someone disagrees with them, its a personal attack and they must be aligned to some power.
Literally anytime someone used to just lightly criticize their favorite thing or person, FS would write blocks of text explaining why that opinion or fact was unjustified, and if you continued, you got banned.
FS is annoying and acts like they are better for just random things. Literally recently they said they're trying to leave the United States, and acting like its a noble sacrifice to leave the queer and BIPOC they once "defended and care about" behind. Said "Maybe I'll give some GoFundMes, I don't care."
Yeah i cant believe the people defending them in this thread. I guess anyone can build up a little following of devoted supporters regardless of how childish and argumentative they behave. Really makes you think. Flying Squid does not come out of this looking good in any way.
Why not? flyingsquid simply wanted clarification on how to discern what something is misinformation and what ain't.
Blackbeard seems to not cut it as a mod.
Blackbeard was actually an excellent mod. I'm not picking sides on this fight, as it was resolved 2 months ago.
Oh lol I failed to miss the dates. OP really tried to dig up dirt for whatever reasons.
Lmao he was literally sea-lioning. Misinformation is also not something that needs to be clarified beyond blackbeards first statement which is "someones opinion that you disagree with, that is clearly just an opinion, is not misinformation". I think the person trying to silence dissenting opinions and then acting like a child when they get called out for it is the one who doesn't cut it as a mod, actually.
yet the other mod (next to blackbeard) said it was fine what FlyingSqud was doing. So how to effing trust in this matter?
Asking another mod to mind how they report things should not have been met with this kind of hostility. It was a very simple ask.
But in what capacity should someone mind how to report things? Blackbeard failed to clarify, this escalation was on them.
Misinformation applies to statements of fact not opinion. This was the first thing said. Asking for further 'clarification' was done in bad faith and was just an attempt to obfuscate the issue and seem 'reasonable'. Its a tactic most intelligent adults can recognize and wont put up with, like when a child tries to pretend they dont know how to do their chores and just need you to show them 'one more time'. And then goes 'fine since i obviously cant do it right i just wont do it at all'
The first message had Blackbeard clarify the difference between opinion and misinformation. It's pretty straightforward.
I agree with FlyingSquid here. That opinion that borders defamation, equating political runner with several people and even Hitler, is absolute report worthy.
Defamation is not against the rules and sounds like quite a bit of a stretch. No one on Lemmy is capable of defaming anyone even remotely that famous. It's clearly an example of frivolous reporting.
Sure defamation is not against server rules. But it's against the law of atlesst in USA and my home country which makes it very much against server rules.
Again, defamation is a big stretch and the US laws don't matter in Lemmy. .world is hosted in Europe.
Did I only state US laws? No I didn't. My home country would be Germany.
Besides, do ai/web crawler understand that this piece of opinion was just an opinion and not take it as information?
https://www.carter-ruck.com/law-guides/defamation-and-privacy-law-in-germany/
Yeah, not buying it. Relax buddy. A lot worse has been said online. People are allowed to express their opinions.
What else does an old disabled white dude have time for?
Patently false and wholly unsupported, too? Tell me you've had irrational run-ins with said mod that somehow refused to react how you wanted, you know without saying it word for word, right?
Ooh, yeah, that's it. C'mon, baby, Baader mein hof like only you can. Unf. So good.
Didn't kink shame, ya Temu Marxist. 😚