this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
432 points (92.4% liked)
Memes
45725 readers
963 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
And if someone supports the American government which is committing a genocide in Gaza right now?
"support the American government" is not what I see around Lemmy
You tend to see it more on Lemmy.world, less so on instances dominated by Leftists.
I understand that you hate Marxists, and yes, you're most likely a liberal. It isn't a coincidence that leftists tend to have similar stances to each other, when working from the same theoretical framework similar conclusions follow.
Called it
Called what?
Person A: Expresses a liberal perspective "Watch as this person calls me a Lib" Person B: "..... yes, that is common liberal perspective" Person A: "Called it"
lol hatred of leftists is more associated with fascists than liberals. Don't flatter yourself.
Try saying Joe Biden is committing genocide on lemmy.world and you will find a plethora of apologists.
I think you're confusing electoral lesser-evilism with genuine support. I'm as fed up with 'Israel can do nothing wrong because history' types as the next guy, but they're hardly a majority
If you are demanding everyone vote for the people bypassing Congress to send more bombs to the obviously grotesque war criminal country, people are gonna think you support them, because you are.
Do you see me demanding anything? I'm literally only describing what has been my experience around Lemmy, and that your widespread genocide support is just your twisting of what people are actually saying. I think your hostile comment proves my point
I was using 'you' rhetorically rather than accusing you of anything. IDK how you see that as a hostile one. I'm just explaining why people get rubbed the wrong way by the the vote blue brigade.
Rubbed the wrong way is understandable, but that's not supporting genocide. They're not and I think you know that
The endpoint of the lesser evilism voting is that you're browbeating people to not protest vote and instead vote for one of the two parties, both promising more genocide, one of which is directly implicated in an entire year of it so far.
To any outside observer ( the people you're trying to sway) it still looks like you support them and everything they've done.
I know, it's the age old reform or revolution debate, nothing new. It's hardly genocide support. Full throated support of Israel's flattening of Gaza gets you buried in downvotes, even on World
Trying to run a third party is the only viable reformist track- the democratic party is totally unresponsive to reform attempts- recall how Obama personally intervened to stop that last time. He even dismantled his own electoral apparatuses after his first run.
Is that genocide support tho? You're calling them genocide supporters. I am not discussing the merits of third party voting with you
Supporting a political party that has been participating in a genocide is supporting genocide, the Democrats have been a genocidal regime worse than any in my lifetime
People are actively censoring and denying any responsibility from the Democrats regarding the genocide in Gaza.
People are utter the words "Kamala was not perfect" while she is an active participant in a genocide.
It is not "Israel can do nothing wrong because history". Democrats are the main responsible party. Seemingly they can do no wrong because lesser evil.
Have you ever watched one of the dystopian Biden state department briefings? It is lie after lie after lie.
Any examples on Lemmy?
You can check the modlog on my account, this was from a couple months ago on Lemmy.world
Comments removed recently from TheOubliette for "misinformation," which just means saying anything the .world mods personally disagree with
Your comment is bizarre. I wouldn't ban anyone over it. But if you had spammed that multiple times as alleged in the ban, fair enough.
For the record I have also been banned for stupid reasons on .ml
For example when this power hungry mod said some bullshit and got downvoted to hell for it, I commented and got a lot of upvotes. So as is customary in .ml they censored my comment because they disagree because I was "rationalising fascism" which is completely ridiculous.
Obviously I called them out and called them a fascist, because I know you guys think that's the absolute worst insult ever (which is unfortunately diminished by the fact that you use it for literally everything). It's honestly quite insane how tankies honestly seems to believe everything Putin says.
The modlog shows you being banned from three communities: [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected]. You had exactly one comment removed from lemmy.ml, in which you said, "I love how all you idiots on lemmygrad, hexbear and .ml constantly show how stupid you all are."
You know these things are public, right?
Primarily lemmy.world
Some wild comments on /politics receiving upvotes there. People rebuking them get their comments removed and/or banned for 'trolling'.
When one visit that place they would think Donald Trump is the current president who is personally strangling every child in Gaza.
I mean that would mean I believe that they're imperialists supporting the case of white supremacy - I don't think it's too much of a stretch to claim that most USA supported conflicts have the purpose of benefitting the western world, which is based on white supremacy - and most likely are either politicaly illiterate and are unaware (willingly or by ignorance) of what USA is doing, or are sociopaths. They're not tankies by virtue of not being pro post soviet dictatorships, but when it comes to the callousness towards loss of innocent human lives, they're uh... Pretty bad. I'm not making a comparison though, I feel that's like asking which of two shits stinks worse, and we can clearly see that both defecators had varied and distinctive diets.
In that case the term Tankie could not be applied to China as the original meaning of the word Tankies could only apply to the Soviet Union.
What I have always understood to be the implication is "people justifying and usually denying war crimes from a government or group which aligns with their political ideology".
Most often those people do not care about the war crimes. They think a government and/or government ideology is awesome and therefore will excuse any war crimes because it is for the greater good/lesser evil.
And honestly speaking I'm not sure myself if "tankie" should apply to China, seeing how most of their bad shit happend internally with the notable exceptions of Taiwan and Hong Kong, which are a stretch. There is a distinctive difference between Russia and China, despite both belonging to same political alliance and both have a dictatorial leaderships. Hating west/USA and loving either of them would make one a campist, but I'm not sure about that qualifyng as tankie. Naturally, most campists support both, so by that definition it would make them tankies.
While your definition does describe tankies as well, I always understood it to be a derogatory term for the general authoritarian communist/pseudo-communist block more so than applying to all national supermacists.
Those are still internal to China. I can understand that people are ignorant of the fact that Taiwan is part of China given the rhetoric around it and the fact that it is still provisionally ruled by the ousted rump-state nationalist government that still thinks it's the legitimate ruler of Mongolia too. Taiwan IS part of China, but there IS something being actually being contested there. But Hong Kong? Hong Kong unambiguously is in China, it's just one of the Special Autonomous Regions, but even they themselves consider themselves part of China, not "external" to it.
Also, it's not "bad shit," it's treating reactionaries with relatively kid gloves.
China does not have a "dictorial" leadership. As for Russia, well it's leadership is no more "dictorial" than that of any western "democracy" leadership. Their "political alliance" is still relatively loose, and the only way in which they could be considered part of the same "axis" (not a word you used, but still kind of implied) is because the US's belligerence against them both has driven them closer together.
Hating the west/USA is just a matter of simultaneously knowing history and being a compassionate, empathetic human being. And I would bet that most of the people you would say "love" either Russia or China rather just support their actions and goals, probably very critically in the case of Russia, and do so for rational reasons based on the true behavior of those countries. That is not campism. Campism is when you support (or "love") a country not because its actions genuinely align with your own ideals or ideology but purely because you identify with it. Interestingly, it largely stems from a failure of self-awareness. There absolutely are campists for Russia and for China, I am not denying that at all. But despite what the libs here say, you won't find very many of them on lemmy. Most of the people on lemmy support these countries for very rational reasons regarding ideology and their geopolitical conduct.
This is more or less correct. Most campists on lemmy support the US/NATO and they certainly aren't tankies by anyone's standards. You're right about it always having been solely a derogatory term for certain radical leftists, nowadays usually those who support countries whose governments are fighting western imperialism. But like many others have said in this thread, it is becoming so diluted that merely not supporting the fascist DNC has been enough to get a person labeled a tankie. The silly "authoritarian" part mostly came into play once liberals started using the term and (as usual) completely not understanding its origins (origins that have to do with a specific uprising in Hungary in the 1950s).
That's not relevant to being a tankie as the US, Israel, and other states backing Israel, aren't claiming they're building communism or are the successor state to another which claimed to be building communism. It's the part where communism is an excuse that means the bad things didn't really happen and would be fine even if they did that makes tankie-ism its own distinct thing.
So apologizing and supporting war crimes is fine as long as it is not communism?
Of course not, but it's an unrelated not fine to whether or not someone's a tankie.
How does supporting one genocide stop the other? Who said that I somehow support the US? Who says I am even american, and not someone who personally has to deal with the consequences of tankie horseshit?
Your definition conveniently exempted America and countries such as Germany or the UK.
That is true. What the west is doing in Palestine is worse.
Russia does bomb regularly bomb infrastructure such as energy plants. But Russia is not mass bombing schools, hospitals and refugee camps. Every time they do it it is front page news because 2 people died. Meanwhile Israel bombs a school killing 20 people every single day.
If Russia did what America and Israel are doing in Gaza, the front page of newspapers would be filled with sob stories and gore. And Hamas would be praised as brave resistance fighters against the modern Nazis.