There are downsides with downloading their app just to input bad data, but it's a fun thought.
edit: While we're at it we might as well offer an alternative app to people.
I posted in [email protected] to collect recommendations for better apps
The post: https://lemmy.ca/post/32877620
Leading Recommendation from the comments
The leading recommendation seems to be Drip (bloodyhealth.gitlab.io)
Summarizing what people shared:
- accessible: it is on F-droid, Google Play, & iOS App Store
- does not allow any third-party tracking
- the project got support from "PrototypeFund & Germany's Federal Ministry of Education and Research, the Superrr Lab and Mozilla"
- Listed features:
- "Your data, your choice: Everything you enter stays on your device"
- "Not another cute, pink app: drip is designed with gender inclusivity in mind."
- "Your body is not a black box: drip is transparent in its calculations and encourages you to think for yourself."
- "Track what you like: Just your period, or detect your fertility using the symptothermal method."
Their Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@dripapp
Why are such apps popular? Do these offer something more than what a combination of reminders and notes (digital or analog) providr?
Perhaps, these apps offer some insights based on the data. But would one take the risk of listening to an app for medical advice?
Hi! Lots of people in this comment section who clearly don't have periods, but yea they do offer something more. That's why they're used. It really feels like a bunch of presumably men are here in the comments to remind women that paper exists? Yea, we know. Other than these all being easily searchable questions, allow me to say we use them for many reasons including: Convenience - you almost always have your phone on hand. Do you really want to keep a dedicated period journal on your person at all times? Predictions - despite what you may believe, periods are not all regular. Some can skip months at a time. Most apps have a bunch of data sets they use to predict things even if your data isn't complete Integrations - does my journal automatically cross reference my symptoms and alert me that it noticed that eating apples makes my headaches worse? No, and the level of analysis being done would need both an inhuman amount of time and resources to do by hand
Women are not "listening to an app for medical advice" so much as using apps predictive algorithm. The app has access to much more data than we do individually and it can be extremely helpful for women with irregular or extreme periods.
Is it great opsec? No. Sometimes things trump (lol) opsec. I still will advise against anyone (man or woman) downloading and using these apps if they have alternatives. The apple health app seems like a privacy focused one, but I can't stress enough how none of that matters anyway. The courts and public opinion will be stacked against women in these positions, so any app data that can be used will be, and any lack of app data will just be used to make the case anyway. Keep as much data as you can as private as you can, regardless. People adding false data to the does nothing.
Thank you for providing detailed answers to my questions; which is what they are, just questions. I want to clarify, as much as your response suggests, I had not accused anyone or the apps of anything, nor was I belittling anyone for not knowing "paper exists". But I do get your frustrations which such comments, mine included.
I just want to better understand the appeal of these apps – all health tracking apps for that matter, and not just period trackers.
I still feel using such apps was a bad idea even before the onset of the current cultural and political climate, despite the convenience offered.
We have been consulting actual doctors long before these apps appeared on the scene, who provide personalised advice without the risks of large-scale data tracking, whether it is for something as simple as a prolonged cold or as complicated as delayed periods.
P.S. Yes, these are easily searchable questions, but then there is never a need to have any discussion on a forum as everything is a search away. I figured a more direct conversation would give me a clearer sense of the actual user experience, especially given how nuanced such issues can be.
Thank you for not taking any offense to my frustrated tone, as it was indeed just that, frustration. Having questions and posting them here is completely understandable, and for what it's worth, I'd rather people ask than just never get an answer.
Though you are allowed to have your own opinion and come to your own conclusions, I think the fact you stated that you think using the apps was a bad idea even before now, and that doctors have been helping people long before apps, demonstrates that either I was not clear enough, or you were unable to appreciate the lived experience of people affected by their periods.
Doctors regularly misunderstand, misdiagnose, and outright ignore period related medical issues. I'm not sure where you live, but even in a country with the best healthcare in the world, it's literally impossible for doctors to provide the personalized information that apps can. I'm not saying that apps therefore must be used and are better than doctors, but I, a woman with periods, am telling you that my app has been more helpful than my doctor as far as managing my cycle goes. You don't have to believe me, or you can say that you don't think anything is worth the trade off in data for you as an individual, but people using these apps would obviously disagree. And not just because they don't know they're being tracked. We're all being tracked to a certain extent and we decide what we're willing to put up with in exchange. If you don't think you'd share your data for that convenience, fine, but people share data for other conveniences all the time. It's just extremely unfortunate that this data has now become so contentious.
Thank you again for your nuanced response. I get that tracking health data can be useful, but I think the real value comes from sharing that data with a doctor who can make sense of it – not from relying on an app, at least not yet.
I am aware of how stressful and confusing things can get when managing something like periods. Multiple members of my family have faced these struggles, and while the healthcare system in our country is disorganised and far from perfect, we have always found that a good doctor’s expertise – though hard to come by – is irreplaceable.
As I mentioned earlier, I do see the value in tracking symptoms and vitals, but that value is unlocked when that data is used to inform a professional’s advice – not handed over to companies that profit from it, or worse, enable a greater malice.
In the end, it seems we are at an impasse between our opinions, but I believe the stakes are too high to rely on apps when lower-risk options – like consulting with doctors – have helped people navigate these struggles for generations. Again, I understand why apps can be appealing, but I think it’s important to consider what might be lost in the long term, especially when it comes to something as personal and vital as our health.
Perhaps, the energy should be put toward making good healthcare more accessible – which, I believe, is what these apps promised.
Not much to add here, as seemingly we agree on almost all real issues. Just wanted to acknowledge your response and wish you and yours well in all things.
Yes, despite our long exchanges we do agree on the core issues. I appreciate your acknowledgement. Wishing you and yours well too.
Here's how I think about it:
I deleted Samsung Health from my phone not long after getting it. I started realizing that it's a VERY network intensive app, it wanted a lot of questionable permissions, etc. I fully see the purpose of a Health & Fitness app in the lives of everyday people, I think it can be of legitimate help for encouraging people to exercise and whatever, the health features of that app were definitely developed with the same attitude a hunter baits a trap. It was what they begrudgingly did to get me to step in it.
I ditched Samsung Health because I had visions of them selling that data to my health insurance provider who would then use it as an excuse to make my coverage worse and therefore more profitable. So I'm pretty sure if I was a jew in 1930's Germany I'd delete Synogogr from my phone.
Elsewhere, I've seen women tweet or Tumbl or whatever about refusing to discuss their periods with their doctors. "When was yoru last period?" "It's regular, that's all you need to know." Where's that energy when it's a cell phone app?
I think it was probably a good move to stop using Samsung health. Hopefully you're getting the features you need elsewhere or are staying healthy without it.
I think you are seeing some of that energy as it relates to these apps, hence the OOP, but for practicality sake, and maybe out of naivety, most women are not/don't need to be as concerned as Jews in 1930s Germany. Most of the harm that will be done will be in removing access to future care and likely mainly to start in red states. If apps become a huge source of the issue, I think you'll see a larger shift, but I imagine most of those cases would not need app data as a main source of evidence. You'll see women dying of miscarriages more and more. And abortion will be more difficult to access, but I think there would have to be more cases where period app data was specifically used to convict before much changes. I think it's difficult to accurately convey how important accurate tracking/predictions can be for some people, and how unwilling they would be to give that up. Especially if they are not in a situation where they are likely to get pregnant. The difference between telling your doctor your period is regular vs using an app is that your doctor is just not capable of giving up to the minute personalized information the way an app can. If people's doctors were personally knocking on their door reminding them to take their medication twice a day and then giving them reminders that Wednesdays their symptoms are worse so maybe don't plan a full body gym workout, they'd probably be less likely to withhold the information from their doctor, so I don't really see the two as being directly comparable. Though, I generally agree with the sentiment that it's bad idea to trust anyone with your data, especially health data or data that can be used to support a criminal case against you.
Yeah, the only way anyone should have ever trusted these is if the data was stored locally only. There's no reason for it to be uploaded.