this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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That quote is such a funny thing. My mom once quoted it to me as a reason to support the Iraq War. I didn't even know how to respond to that because it was so completely backwards. The way I saw it, the invasion of Iraq was evil triumphing because good people did nothing to stop it.
That's how I feel about you saying it to me now. Evil is triumphing in Gaza precisely because people aren't willing to take a stand on it.
Ahhh yes, the oh so helpful stand of not voting for a party that could win.
Like, you do understand that Harris likely means fewer dead Palestinians than trump, yes? This isn't complicated.
Harris is vice president. There's a genocide ongoing under her and Biden's approval. End of the story. She has also repeatedly expressed her lack of will to change the current situation.
Ahhh yes, as VP she shouls strike out and create her own foreign policy while under another administration!
The irony is I don't imagine you understand how ridiculously silly that statement was.
Though I'm curious how helping trump will somehow help the Palestineans.
I understand your feelings, and sometimes I feel the same way. But what you didn't tell us is the steps you've taken to make life better for people in Palestine and neighboring countries who are dying now.
If you want to argue that Harris is the lesser of two evils and that you're also working to prevent her from being as evil as she has been in the past, you actually have to say that. Or don't say it, and we'll assume that you're doing nothing because you don't care, and the future is going to be just like the past, which is not acceptable.
I don't feel the need to get into a pissing contest over who is doing more. Nor do I think it's particularly helpful to demand everyone live like I do. That being said, if you are curious:
I have taken a 25 or 35% pay cut (40 if the last headhunter is to be believed) so I can work for a non profit and get underprivileged kids a post secondary education, haven't bought sweatshop clothes in a decade etc. I door knock for every election for the party furthest left that can win. I'm Canadian and relatively support my Leftist party's positions but generally write in where possible.
Were I American, I'd be door knocking, volunteering and everything else for every damned primary as that's how we move things.
I don't believe in the ideology of lesser evilism. The refusal to hold politicians to any sort of standard whatsoever is a part of why we're in this situation in the first place.
That's a very easy view to hold when you aren't one of the Palestinians who will die because of people like you making the same choice.
Small comfort to the people whom you pretend to care about.
Do you think the Palestinians in Gaza believe in applying lesser-evilism to the US election? I think it's the opposite, it's a very easy view to hold when the people dying under the lesser evil are kept safely out of sight and out of mind. It's much harder to cradle a dead child in your arms and say, "Well, it could be worse."
I imagine they'd like fewer bombs as opposed to more bombs, yes.
The best would be zero bombs but nothing you are doing is getting them anywhere closer to that.
But you are, through your choice, helping there be more bombs and more dead.
Gazans do not support the people whose bombs are dropping on them right now, no.
I am not helping there be more bombs and more dead.
I enjoy your confidence to speak on behalf of Gazans, especially in a "more bombs on them is fine!" context.
If there are two options, one leading to fewer dead Palestineans and one leading to more, not helping get us to fewer is an immoral choice, which you are making. That's exactly what the evil prevailing quote is about.
I can't make this any more simple for you. You can choose to disregard the reality and consequences of your choices but you should at least have the decency to admit them.
No matter what you say, or how well you say it… they will either make up some bullshit reductive nonsense, or they’ll side-step the entire point as if you never made it.
They’re here in bad faith. They’re a troll. This is evident in their refusal to even acknowledge the facts being laid out before them.
When one refutes common sense, there’s no longer a reason to respect their point of view.
Just bag on them and move on.
Only if you ascribe to the ideology of lesser evilism, which is a ridiculous ideology.
Suppose someone has rounded up 10 people, and they say, "I'll kill all of these people, unless you kill one of them for me." Is it moral to do that? How about if you do it and he says, "You work for me now, go round up 10 more people for me so I can do this again, or else I'll kill 20." Still moral?
You're devolving into insane hypotheticals.
Fewer Palestineans die under a Harris term than a trump one and you are refusing to help.
That's the sum total. Have a happy Halloween.
Sitting on your hands isn’t as effective as you think it is bud. Hate to break it to you.
But for funzies…. How about you go ahead and find a moment in history where doing nothing at all created the best outcome for anyone or anything.
EDIT: two days later and nothing as I expected.
I am doing something. I'm voting for the issues at my doorstep. I have a gay child, and a non-binary child. I have another that is autistic.
If Trump wins, there's a non-zero chance that my children will be in danger.
I'm also an advocate for the homeless (don't correct me. I used to be homeless, and we hate "unhoused"),.
I advocate for foster youth, a sector no politician cares about.
All you do is complain about one issue. There's scores of issues. Jill Stein isn't happening. Vote in reality, and for reproductive rights, non-cis rights, rights for the homeless, and for someone that will actually win.
I won't say a vote for Jill is a vote for Trump.
A vote for Jill is the same as not voting. I tell people that didn't vote "you don't vote, you don't have a right to bitch"
I don't believe in rights at all but I'll say anything I like
I respect your decision. But I'm not going to do the same. If Palestinians can be sacrificed today, I can be sacrificed tomorrow. If a line cannot be drawn somewhere, then we will all be fucked, and this is where I have drawn mine.
That's your decision. In my opinion, it means your not voting. Your line helps nobody.
We will be stuck voting for the lesser evil until the end of time unless things change, and they cannot be changed if we don't try to change them.
I've explained myself in many different ways in this thread, but honestly, that's what it comes down to.
I don't live in a swing state regardless.
The Iraq war protests were huge. But the protests didnt matter.
Does everyone see how this person offers nothing but contrarian nonsense disguised as ethics lessons?
Please call them out and move on. Don’t waste time on this.