this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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'I Care About Little Kids Dying': Ocasio-Cortez Hits Back at Fetterman Over Gaza (www.commondreams.org)
submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] agamemnonymous -2 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

pretty low bar shes failing to step over to get some easy votes.

Israel is an ally. She can't get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters. If those moderates outnumber the view she could get, she winda up with a smaller total. Why would she do that?

And you're correct no one can compel me to vote rationally. the funny thing about acting rationally is that the definition of rationality is that it depends on the goal. My goal is to get harris to commit to upholding our laws on not selling to genocidal maniacs like bibi.

Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.

Harris needs my vote (and others) to do so.

Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn't need yours specifically. If she can't get yours, she'll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that's much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.

just like she needs my vote to protect all those groups you mentioned, which if she was committing to a policy that endangered them I'd do the same thing.

Again, doesn't need yours, just enough. You can be part of that "enough", or force her to look elsewhere.

first they came for the palestinians, but I was not a palestinian so I didn't speak out.... seem familiar?

How exactly are the Palestinians, or the other minorities down your slippery slope, supposed to benefit by Harris losing? Harris is in a complex quagmire restricted by geopolitical red tape and AIPAC funding. The other guy loves Bibi and wants to help him finish the job.

so email your critters let them know you support a embargo on israel

Done, like a year ago.

and that you want harris to make a commitment in the next week and if she does you have my vote and likely 40K minimum more in a swing state. worry about the zionists another day they'll be fine. all you need to do is give harris permission. go forth and do so, repeatedly daily for the next week.

This is pure nonsense. On multiple levels. I'll leave you to your delulu

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago

Any voters she would lose are far outweighed by the amount of voters she'd get. It's about 5:1 from what the polls indicate, or about a +6 point gain. Quite significant considering how dead-locked the race is right now

Quote

Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.

Quotes

In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.

Quotes

Quotes

Quotes

Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.

Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Israel is an ally.

Yes, we call this 'enabling' and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don't go 'oh well they're my friend' I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.

She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters.

No one is asking her to not protect israel. but fun fact: they're not moderates if they're supporting a genocide.

Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.

thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act. personally I only decide how I can act. and seems like others agree with me and not you since harris can't find votes.

Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.

you actually don't know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you. I'm about as reliable as they come for votes; I show up every year and vote for people who represent me. if there are none, I show up for the ballot initiatives and leave the candidates blank. Its hardly my fault the DNC didn't run a real primary to find the best candidate this year because we know harris wouldn't have won.

Done, like a year ago.

samesies, do it again, repeatedly this week. =) they weren't willing to do shit a year ago because they didn't need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.

This is pure nonsense. On multiple levels.

yes, pure nonesense.

not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can't help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as 'not commiting genocide' shrug.

if she had a solid platform she wouldn't be floundering. I can't do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i'm doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I'm letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.

heres my fence, lets see if she can get over it!

[–] agamemnonymous -2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

we call this 'enabling' and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don't go 'oh well they're my friend' I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.

Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn't matter what's right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.

She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters.

No one is asking her to not protect israel.

This reflects her stated position, but here you are saying it's not good enough.

Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.

thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

It must be a strange sensation seeing it from the other side. Your entire strategy is based on assumptions about how others will act. The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.

Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.

you actually don't know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you.

thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

they weren't willing to do shit a year ago because they didn't need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.

thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can't help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as 'not commiting genocide' shrug.

all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

if she had a solid platform she wouldn't be floundering.

all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

I can't do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i'm doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I'm letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.

all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn't directly vote for him, it's not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it's not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it's not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it's not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it's her fault you helped the greater evil.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn’t matter what’s right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.

agreed, and shes losing; all I can do is try and help by telling her what will get mine and apparently other votes.

The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.

the past does not predict the future. but it rhymes. and the past shows the democrats run to the right and lose. looks in harris' direction

thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.

I've only made a single claim on how others will act and it was a group that literally said 'stop the arm shipments to gaza' and there are 100k of them in an important swing state.

Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn’t directly vote for him, it’s not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it’s not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it’s not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it’s not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.

correct. you see its a popularity contest, and apparently shes not winning and doesn't know how to. a shame really. if only the DNC ran a real primary when faced with a historically disliked administration. well you lose some, you win some. but it is a shame and its a shame you wouldn't put in the effort for all those groups you're trying to place on my plate. my vote is here for the taking. its a shame she couldn't check a single box on my list. I hope she pulls it off but for some reason it seems like she wont.

Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.

its funny you think your giant list of minority groups who actually have rights and trump wont be able to take them away by himself is more important to me than the 40k people already murdered and million + put at risk by the biden admin inability to have a spine. its why he lost support (among a plethora of other issues, like union busting) and just slapping harris' name on the top of the ticket won't change that outcome. sorry but the deaths are the greater evil. I will not choose between the minority groups. you can compromise if you wish I won't.