this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024

219 points (98.7% liked)

World News

38553 readers

2587 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

219

An Allegedly Corrupt Russian Commander Sent His Best Drone Operator To Die As An Infantryman (www.forbes.com)

submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 46 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Obviously, I do t know anything that's not in the article...

But...

We're looking at drafted soldiers, and officers that were likely career military before...

There's a reason why America stopped doing that even if the kids today don't know where "fraggin" comes from.

In Vietnam, it wasn't just because they hated their Officer, it was also if their last one got killed legitimately and the new guy was obviously going to get you and your buddies killed. In that environment, it doesn't matter if your officer is trying to get you killed or is incompetent.

And especially today with all the media and propaganda, it's hard to say this one was some kind of spy or intentionally causing Russian causalities.

But its just as likely he's an old school "a soldier is a soldier, stop playing video games" type of guy.

To the troops that can look like intentional sabotage. When troops start thinking their officers will get them killed...

I can't think of a nation off the top of my head that won a war like that.

The closest would be when the Nazis invaded Russia and any Russians that ran got shot by the Russians behind them.

But that wasn't their officers. That was the officers and troops behind them that would be doing the same thing in days or even hours.

If Russian troops start thinking the best way to stay alive is kill their officers, we're gonna start seeing a lot of dead officers, especially with Russia's reliance on criminals and mercenaries these days.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Shows how desperate the Russian side is if they're willing to sacrifice such highly skilled individuals in a regular infantry assault. They are running out of manpower for their campaign.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 days ago (3 children)

If Russian troops start thinking the best way to stay alive is kill their officers, we’re gonna start seeing a lot of dead officers, especially with Russia’s reliance on criminals and mercenaries these days.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. These guys knew that they were being sent to their deaths and they still obeyed the order. The Russian mindset is hard to comprehend.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They'd rather go and likely die than live in Russian gulags...

But they'd rather fuck off and be free than either.

It hasn't even been a year since Russian troops marched to Moscow bruh.

They're not as solid as you think. It took a leader to get them to march on Moscow, all it takes for them to fuck off is seeing others do it. And if officers stop them, well, there's lots of people in the Russian army that won't hesitate to kill someone for their own gain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

That was Wagner, which at the time was technically separate from Russia's regular military. (Think of it as being akin to a private military company.) And they were lead by the head of Wagner. I think the equivalent in the Russian military would be Putin himself - so I'm not sure if we can expect the same sort of thing nowadays, as a military leader below Putin wouldn't be expected to command the same level of loyalty over Putin's army that the head of Wagner did over the Wagner troops.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

True. These guys know exactly what's going on but there seems to be little to no resistance. Really strange.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

The guy seems like a career specialist based on the article. Lots of regular conscripts have tried to surrender or run away but this guy fought in Russian proxy wars long before the Ukraine conflict. So he's not the type to disobey an order like this.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I boosted because for the most part I agree, however the 40k style commissar executions by the Soviets was wildly overblown by Hollywood and the joys of the First Cold War (imo, it either never ended or began anew in the past 20 years).

I dug around to find some relevant info:

These barrier troops operated by apprehending retreating troops and sending them back to the frontline. When this was not possible, retreating troops were detained to await trial. Although they had orders which allowed them to shoot deserters and “cowards” on the spot, and while this most certainly did happen, it was not the norm. Of those detained and found guilty (around 900,000), roughly 422,000 were sent to penal battalions where they would continue the fight against the Germans by performing the most dangerous jobs. This number accounted for around 1.5% of those who would serve in the Red Army during World War II. Another 436,000 were imprisoned

An example of these ratios can be found in an internal list from the NKVD regarding the Battle of Stalingrad from 1 August 1942 to 15 October 1942. According to the list, 15,649 soldiers were picked up by barrier troops. Of these, 244 were imprisoned, 278 were shot, 218 were sent to penal units, and 14,833 soldiers were returned to their units.

So these blocking units were technically being operated by NVKD orders and officers, and according to their data, the vast majority of retreating/deserting troops were sent back alive (to die on the front line). Also for context for any readers unaware, the NKVD was the predecessor to the KGB, much like how the US had their OSS more or less turn into the CIA.

Couple quick sources since I'm too lazy to dig through my Russian history textbooks: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/11/05/the-soviet-army-once-shot-its-own-troops-for-retreating--the-russian-army-could-do-the-same/ https://www.thecollector.com/soviets-in-world-war-ii-myths-and-misconceptions/

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

the NKVD was the predecessor to the KGB, much like how the US had their OSS more or less turn into the CIA.

Whoooa-ooaahh!!!

That's, that's not even a comparison you can make, that's insane!

The nkvd was a monstrous organization that controlled every aspect of Soviet civilian life, it was Stalin's personal enforcement arm, responsible for all the purges and executions.

It was led by this fucker here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavrentiy_Beria

The hundreds of underaged girls he raped and tortured are literally the least of his crimes.

Comparing the nkvd with the Cia? I don't even understand how you can try.

The KGB exists because the nkvd was utterly out of control under Stalin and they wanted something a bit less insane. Still a brutal arm of state security, but the NKVD was schizophrenic serial killers on meth.

The US has never, EVER in our history had anything that can remotely compare to either. The Cia specifically operates against foreign targets, there were very few exceptions to that rule.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That wasn't the point I was making.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I get it, I just didn't like the parallel, the NKVD were absolute monsters, nightmares in human form, the CIA has a LOT of faults, but outside of Pinochet and a few things in the 80s, I can't see them on the same level at all.