this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
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She reaches out to the neocons with every single policy concession. Fracking. Universal healthcare. Student loans. Police reform. The ratchet continues, and all the liberals have to offer is "At least it's not fascism" as we help genocide Palestine and corporate power grows until it's practically the same thing as state power.
And what are you offering?
You really think that all the voters who didn't force the Dems to nominate a true Progressive in 2020 are going to vote for some as yet unnamed candidate in November?
We're in danger of drowning, and your response is to complain that the lifeboat doesn't have WiFi.
Precisely. This crowd loves to talk a good talk about the ratchet or the Overton window, but offers absolutely nothing in terms of practical, realistic solutions.
No, a third party progressive with zero national name recognition and no ballot access in a majority of the country is not going to magically win 270 electoral votes if you write them in. If going viral was that easy everyone would do it. So grow up and offer a practical solution, or shut the fuck up.
I recall a post somewhere from a person saying they can tell when a leftist online is from a blue state or a red state by how they act - I think this whole interaction is very telling where this person is from.
In my state, I'd be happy to have a Democrat of basically any kind over a Republican. Abortion rights are fucked, public education is hobbled, and I expect LGBT rights to be eroded further in the next year or so. Would I like to see leftist policies implemented? Absolutely, but I'll take what I can conceivably get, even if that means things simply don't get worse.
Yes this is very well said. Whenever I see these kinds of comments I can’t help but wonder just how much privilege the author is conveniently disregarding.
I got into words one time with an acquaintance over the idea of protest voting. He really got under my skin because he said something to the effect of “well if trump wins I’ll be fine, and if I’m not I’ll just leave” - it’s like yeah dude, you can do that, plenty of other people can’t.
It's funny, I had thought about mentioning that I'm a straight white dude, so I'm pretty safe from direct problems when it comes to the Republicans targeting women and minorities. Of course, I have both A) friends and family who do not fit that mold, and B) a fucking conscience, so I will likely never vote Republican as long as I live...
Of course, I have to make concessions to those ideals whenever I vote, due to the issues like Gaza...which, while it pains me to say it: I will not willingly let those friends and family members' rights be taken away on account of a bunch of strangers thousands of miles away.
Do I hate genocide? Duh.
Will I vote for "Genocide Joe" or whatever? Absolutely.
For both the reasons stated above and because a protest vote in the US just means letting the people who more broadly oppose your ideals win (and they'd just make the situation worse).
I'm slowly becoming more convinced that any and all so-called leftists online that refuse to vote Dem over Gaza are just intentionally trolling or are bots - the sheer lack of awareness just baffles me.
Yep! This, a thousand times over. I’m also straight, white, a man, and financially secure. By all accounts I’d be fine or probably benefit for a short while from a trump victory. But I also fundamentally view voting not as just a right but a responsibility. As such I also view protest voting as fundamentally irresponsible, and a betrayal of my fellow Americans, principally those less privileged than myself.
At the end of the day, sticking your head in the sand and “vOtInG yOuR cOnScIeNcE” doesn’t change the calculus of it being a spoiler vote and makes it more likely for trump to win, plain and simple. This directly increases the net suffering in the world by not only accelerating the genocide of the people of Gaza, but also making the US less safe and welcoming for a large swath of the population. It is fundamentally a selfish, reckless, and conceited position to take; it prioritizes one’s individual feelings over the collective safety of our society.
I think I'm just gonna start responding to anyone who goes after a person for voting Dem with "why do you hate immigrants and LGBTQ+ people?" Make them come up with some kind of answer while they accuse us of doing "mental gymnastics" to vote for Kamala Harris.
Granted, it's kind of stupid, but I'm not sure what else can be said to someone lacking that much self-awareness.
I would caution against coming at it so strongly; I think it’s possible to be firm and call out the privilege and the reality of the situation firmly but with civility. Let them be the unreasonable one, it will kill the energy behind their message.
The problem I see with that is there really doesn't seem to be a point in bothering with things like civility. The people who say shit like that aren't concerned with anything other than being intentionally obnoxious. A quick jab back to remind any reader that this is what is at stake here and then going into an explanation of "this is how absurd these people are" seems quite effective to me in the short attention span online space.
Back in the day, Ho Chi Minh was happy to work with the American OSS to get the Japanese out of Veit-Nam.
These guys would call him a lackey and a stooge.
you realize trump clicked the ratchet far far faster than any democrat? When republicans win the dems only ever come back more racist in response.
This isn't an election, its a hostage situation and the way to deal with a hostage situation is to appear to negotiate with the hostage takers until you can remove them, its not to immediately attempt to kill all the hostages.