this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2024
-43 points (34.3% liked)

politics

18973 readers
3118 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
-43
Democrats Tuned Out Gaza Protests at the DNC. History Won’t Forget. (truthout.org)
submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
75 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

As Vice President Kamala Harris received the presidential nomination at the 2024 Democratic National Convention (DNC), thousands of people marched near the convention demanding an end to U.S. arms shipments to Israel and the war on Gaza. The protesters, led by Palestinian and Jewish activists, represented a diverse coalition including anti-war veterans, climate justice activists, and labor organizers. Despite efforts by Democrats to keep the Palestine issue sidelined, the marchers made their voices heard, declaring Harris and President Joe Biden complicit in the genocide in Gaza. The protesters came from communities and movements that are often considered part of the Democratic coalition, warning that their votes could not be taken for granted unless the party takes concrete action to end the occupation and devastation in Palestine. Organizers estimate around 30,000 people demonstrated in Chicago over the course of the week, making Palestine impossible to ignore during the convention. The activists drew connections between the struggle for Palestinian liberation and the fight against racist violence and state repression in the U.S., challenging the Democratic Party's complicity in both. The protests encountered a heavy police presence, with hundreds of riot police surrounding the march at all times. Despite the tension, the demonstration remained largely peaceful as the protesters demanded justice for Palestine. As Kamala Harris prepared to take the stage, the marchers continued their chants and songs, determined to keep the spotlight on the ongoing catastrophe in Gaza and the Democratic Party's failure to address it.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, I don't think that's the majority. I think the majority either support Israel without really thinking about it, or don't care.

Unfortunately, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Polls show an overwhelming majority of Democrats disapprove of Israel's military adventurism in Gaza:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

It’s not just the Gallup polling about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict but also surveys that ask about what’s going on in Gaza today showing this sea change. In a May Data for Progress survey, 83 percent of Democrats supported a “permanent cease-fire and de-escalation of violence” in Gaza. A March Gallup poll found that a clear majority of all respondents, as well as 75 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of independents, now oppose Israeli military action in Gaza, although those numbers were a little bit lower in the most recent survey. Gallup polling also found that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s net favorability among all respondents in July was down 10 points, with just 12 percent of Democrats saying they support him. And in a March Pew study, 44 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents opposed U.S. military aid for Israel, with just 25 percent in favor.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/08/kamala-harris-dnc-israel-palestine-polls-voters-ceasefire-arms.html

[–] agamemnonymous 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Of poll respondents. There's a large overlap between people who don't care, and people who don't answer polls. And oh yeah, Harris has been calling for a ceasefire

And disregarding AIPAC is stupid. Picking up the single issue voters by overtly pissing off AIPAC during the election will unleash a multimillion dollar ad campaign. Look at what happened to the squad.

There's no good reason to do that now. A smart candidate would stay relatively quiet until the election, and then go full bore on the offensive. Especially since, y'know, the vice president doesn't even have authority here so it's stupid to blame it on her. Especially when the other candidate is actively sabotaging ceasefire negotiations.

There's just no logic here.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Of poll respondents. There's a large overlap between people who don't care, and people who don't answer polls.

"Of voters. There's a large overlap between people who don't care and people who don't vote."

If you're going to argue that polling isn't an effective means of determining public sentiment then you probably shouldn't pretend to care about voting.

And oh yeah, Harris has been calling for a ceasefire

Wake me up when there's some action behind those words.

And disregarding AIPAC is stupid. Picking up the single issue voters by overtly pissing off AIPAC during the election will unleash a multimillion dollar ad campaign. Look at what happened to the squad

Indeed, look at what this foreign influence campaign did to our precious American democracy. But hey, we're not ready to talk about it because the parties want to have their cake and eat it too.

There's no good reason to do that now. A smart candidate would stay relatively quiet until the election, and then go full bore on the offensive.

You said "smart" but you appear to have meant "complicit".

Especially since, y'know, the vice president doesn't even have authority here so it's stupid to blame it on her.

Since when did they abolish the bully pulpit? A lack of authority only means she couldn't change national policy unilaterally, it doesn't mean she can't actively work against arms deals and for an embargo.

Especially when the other candidate is actively sabotaging ceasefire negotiations.

Thus, the obvious move is to make the ceasefire negotiations a fait accompli by refusing to reload the aggressor's weapons. Even Trump can't sabotage a ceasefire if there's no fire left to be ceased.

[–] agamemnonymous 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I dunno what to tell you. My heart aches, aches for Palestine. More than you know. But I'm not a politician, I don't have tangible power to improve things for them directly. And none of the politicians seem particularly bothered. They're focused on their campaigns, maintaining the status quo, all of it. Like you said, complicit. It would be great if any of your strategies, or the strategies of the protesters, if anything helped. Actually made a difference. It might assuage some of the dread implicit to our daily lives as profoundly privileged and comfortable citizens of the West.

But it's resoundingly obvious that's it's just another minor calculation that gets rolled into the other calculations to win elections. People are dying. Innocent people. It eats me alive. But I'm a privileged , comfortable westerner. My ethical inclinations don't mean shit at best, and soothe me into thinking my compassion is valuable in and of itself at worst.

But I know what backwards looks like. And backwards is bad for everyone, Palestine included. Ukraine too. All the disenfranchised minorities in this country too. I can't just revel in my irrelevance, exercise my privilege by tapping out because no one on the ballot has the perfect platform. I'm afforded the opportunity to slow the backslide. And maybe slowing the backslide isn't enough for you.

But it's something tangible, and I'm going to do it. I'm going to vote lesser evil. Not like my life depends on it, because for all my troubles it's been a blessed life compared to others. If I die tomorrow, I've had a better go than most. I'm voting lesser evil to slow the backslide to mitigate damage for others, because that's what I can do.

I don't live in a clear blue state. Lots of other people don't live in clear blue states. Lots of them identify as leftist. Many of them are here. I'm begging you, don't project your exceptional privilege as a clear blue citizen as universal. This is serious, backsliding is bad for everyone. Carelessly fomenting apathy in people who could actually help is horrific. This isn't just Internet arguments. Innocent people are dying. Stop this. The Dems are garbage neo-libs, but the opposition is tangible evil. Enabling genocide is horrific, but it's marginally better than acceleration of genocide. The opposition is worse. Anything I, and the millions in swing states, can do to mitigate that horror is better than apathy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This isn't just Internet arguments. Innocent people are dying. Stop this.

That's what I keep begging for, but instead I keep getting shouted at by Democrat sycophants who want me to vote now and fix the party never.

[–] agamemnonymous 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You really don't get it. This is just politics to you. Find. Just please, for the love of God, stop trying to drag others down with you. That's all I have to say.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

"Just politics"?

This is a matter of life and death, and you're on the side that's teaming up with Republicans to make sure the bombs keep flowing:

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The issue is much, much larger than what Israel is doing to Gaza.

If you fail to vote for Harris, you allow Trump to win.

If Trump wins:

  1. He will encourage Israel to finish the genocide more quickly.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d

  1. He will take Israel's policy of illegally invading Lebanon as a "security zone" and apply it to Mexico:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-mexico-military-cartels-war-on-drugs-1234705804/

  1. He will set up internment camps in the United States for immigrants and others classed as "undesirable":

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-does-not-rule-out-building-detention-camps-mass-deportations-2024-04-30/

  1. He will purge the government of any and all opposition:

https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2022/07/trump-endorsed-plan-purge-civil-service-rogue-bureaucrats/375028/

  1. He wants to arrest journalists:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/kash-patel-trump-administration/index.html

To be clear here, if Harris does not win, Trump will. Those are your two choices. You can choose to vote for Harris or you court disaster. There is no viable 3rd choice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The issue is much, much larger than what Israel is doing to Gaza.

Agreed.

If you fail to vote for Harris, you allow Trump to win.

Since my vote is now the deciding factor, I have some demands that the Democrats will finally have to listen to if they don't want Trump to win.

  1. Stop financing genocide.

Did I say "some demands"? I meant "just do the bare minimum", Jesus..

To be clear here, if Harris does not win, Trump will. Those are your two choices. You can choose to vote for Harris or you court disaster. There is no viable 3rd choice.

Precisely. Democrats know they're the only game in town so they have no incentive to offer better policy. All demands for them to show some basic humanity can be deflected with cries of "But Trump!!1!".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The big problem with the Democrats is that they fail to acknowledge that the Republicans are not honest brokers. The Democrats insist "the system" works and if they work with the Republicans to get things done, everything will be fine.

Meanwhile the Republicans have two strategies:

  1. When they're in power:
    "We won! You have to do things our way! Elections mean things!"
    Democrats: "Fine."

  2. When they're not in power:
    "You're being mean because you won! You have to do things our way or you aren't being bi-partisan!"
    Democrats: "Fine."

They either move policy to the right, or block everything until policy moves to the right. Since they don't actually want government to do anything, they consider both positions a win.

The Democrats are too spineless to counter this action.