this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2024
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[–] [email protected] 95 points 2 months ago (17 children)

What crimes did he personally commit?

[–] [email protected] 204 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

From translating TFA:

Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, child crime offenses and fraud.

Same reason Russia wanted to arrest him, failure to do the government's bidding.

[–] [email protected] 111 points 2 months ago (4 children)

By that logic we should arrest all Car company CEOs for being complicit in crime lol, it's not exactly his choice what people do with his product

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers. Which is why most sites are moderated to a degree. This dude basically said "fuck off" whenever takedowns were issued. It's hardly a surprise that he's been arrested.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Illegal content is distributed through snail mail and telephones too, but those are common carriers so they aren't liable. Why should Telegram be any different?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The analogy works if you lease or rent.

Rent a car, commit a crime, boom — rental company is on the hook apparently. Moronic.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The rental company, on the other hand, is more than willing to turn you in to not be considered liable. Which they probably would be if they impeded an investigation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Your modified analogy is broken, since it is impossible for an encryption service to provide the information being subpoenaed by definition. You wouldn’t claim Hertz is “impeding an investigation” by failing to use telepathy. Damn but authoritarians are stupid.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

So... you're saying your own analogy is disanalogous...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Most analogies are, its better to stick to facts

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But, have you noticed that after committing a crime, criminals and felons usually escape.... using a car?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This is more like arresting the getaway driver, not the car manufacturer.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Except the getaway driver is just a cabbie who will drive anyone who gets in. He didn't know he was part of a heist.

Would you hold the CEO of lyft responsible if one of their self-driving cars were used in a heist?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

If the CEO of Lyft got repeated warnings that this very thing was happening and ignored them willfully, then yes. In the end he has nobody to blame but himself. It's no different from hosting a file sharing platform without ever vetting the content and wondering why the cops show up one day. The stupidity of going to France knowing that you're a wanted man in a number of countries is just the cherry on top.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

Not sure. I was just bored and was making a funny comment.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers.

landlords should be prosecuted for crimes commited by tenants in houses they rented out to the tenants.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

I mean depending on the crimes, yeah. If a child porn ring runs out of your building and you're alerted to its continued existence, and the police are asking who lives there and you don't tell them and keep renting to them? Yeah.

[–] Kecessa 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If the landlord knows it's happening and let it happen then yeah, that's what being complicit is all about

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

how are you meant to know, by impeding on your tenant's privacy constantly?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Well, telegram has public and private conversations. So in this example, you'd know because they were having trafficking parties on their front yard and the police of multiple countries notified them to let them know. And then you were aware of this issue so you purposely avoided being in numerous countries that want to arrest you. Seems like he knew.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

People need houses to live. Taking stuff off your own server doesn't throw someone out onto the streets and leave them to the elements. Come on lol

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

The criminals ate bread before the heist, better round up all the grain farmers

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Next they'll charge oil executives for damage to the planet

[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 months ago

Next they’ll make encrypting your own files illegal. Absolutely preposterous. Do better police work!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Next up, outlawing pencil erasers and flammable paper

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So your pro arresting gun and ammo manufacturing company CEOs?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I'm all for it. Time to end the guns supply chain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Oh for fucks sake I'm so tired of this bullshit.

Governments nowadays are constantly acting like a tech platform has a responsibility eliminate privacy for users because if they have privacy, then they can't be tracked. It's infuriating.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Told Russia to fuck off, and now France is complicit.

Tells us a lot about how governments view Telegram.

[–] merde 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

has nothing to do with Russia, according to the linked article

Pourquoi était-il sous la menace d'un mandat de recherche ?

La Justice considère que l’absence de modération, de coopération avec les forces de l’ordre et les outils proposés par Telegram (numéro jetable, cryptomonnaies…) le rend complice de trafic de stupéfiants, d’infractions pédocriminels et d’escroquerie.

Ce mandat de recherche courait si, et seulement si, Pavel Durov se trouvait sur le territoire national.

En effet, Telegram est une ruche pour les contenus criminels. En ce moment, la plateforme fait l'actualité avec la diffusion illégale des matchs de Ligue 1. Mais sur cette messagerie chiffrée, de nombreux comptes sont utilisés par la criminalité organisée. Au-delà du terrorisme, les plus dangereux pédocriminels communiquent sur Telegram pour échanger des contenus. "C'est devenu depuis des années LA plateforme numéro 1 pour le crime organisé", commente un enquêteur.

even if it's not about telegram, this might help to understand ☞ https://www.laquadrature.net/en/2023/12/15/encryption-discussion-during-the-8-december-trial-from-myth-to-reality/

Several of the defendants were questioned about their use of tools and software such as Signal, Tor and Tails, and about the encryption of their computers and hard drives. The questioning followed the same pattern as the prosecution’s investigations, which we revealed a few months ago: a huge amount of confusion as to the technical understanding of these tools combined with a suspicious approach to their actual use. Three defendants were questioned about their motivation for using such software, as if a well-argued justification was needed, even though the tools are perfectly normal, legal and ordinary.

“It is possible and not forbidden to have these tools, but we can ask ourselves why dissimulate information” the president of the court stated. Suspicion of clandestinity coupled with little knowledge of the subject was evident in their questions: “You explain that the use of this ‘kind of network’ [Signal] was to preserve your privacy, but are you afraid of being monitored?”. Or: “Why did you think it was important or a good idea to find out about this ‘kind of environment’ [the Tails operating system]?”.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago

Thanks for that.

So basically, "Why are you hiding from us? Only criminals hide, so you must be hiding criminal activity!"

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago

From the article

The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the forces of law and order and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedo criminal offences and fraud.

But a lot of people are speculating they just fabricated claims to arrest him because Telegram is russian.

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